Pet Peeve: Boss fights that force you to change the way you play

Pyrian on 5/2/2013 at 21:41

How many people bought the game during the winter sales and never installed it? If we're going to track achievements to judge where people bog down, there needs to be an achievement "started playing" just to get a baseline.

Renault on 5/2/2013 at 21:55

Quote Posted by Jason Moyer

60% isn't really that bad based on the global achievement stats for most games I have. 13.8% finished the first part of Bit.Trip.Runner. 54.2% completed the training in Zeno Clash.

OK, but both are indie games, priced pretty cheap. Much easier to buy and neglect/forget than a AAA title costing $60.

Zerker on 5/2/2013 at 22:29

Quote Posted by Jason Moyer

13.8% finished the first part of Bit.Trip.Runner.

I'm one of those 86.2% and I actually sat down and intended to play through it. Bit.Trip.Runner is just too hard for its own good; I got fed up playing each stage N times and said forget it. It needed some sort of checkpoint system, not just "do the whole level in one go".

That game does essentially have a "start playing" achievement, and 88.2% of players have that.

heywood on 6/2/2013 at 00:03

I think everyone raged the first time they met Barrett. That first battle was so jarring and immersion breaking. But I got over it, and upon replay he didn't bother me so much. He at least offers some challenge assuming you don't use the stun exploit. I don't think the bosses in Human Revolution were like old console bosses where you had to know the secret trick to beat them. That's more like the stupid floating baby with the flowering skull at the end of Half-Life. The DX:HR bosses could be dealt with using multiple different tactics and weapons (some easier than others of course). A bigger issue with the boss battles is that they force you to kill. A lot of people wanted to make a non-lethal run.

And what bugged me most was the end "boss". After the game makes a big deal about all the Hyron security, it turns out to be trivial. Such a letdown. And I thought for sure I had found a gameplay bug when the bots and guards just continued to stand inside their monster closet after the door was opened. Did nobody play test that level?

Quote Posted by Jason Moyer

That right there works for every boss fight. Seriously, all you need to do is save your taser ammo (and there's no reason to ever use it outside of boss fights since you can just use takedowns when you're in stun gun range) and then hit each boss like 15 times or something and that's it.

With my copy of DX:HR, that only works with the first boss and sort of works with the second. The third boss can't be stunned at all. YMMV.

Quote Posted by WingedKagouti

Boss fights should utilize the player and character skills you've been using to get to them. That's not to say that they shouldn't mix them up, but if you've been sneaking/talking your way through a game you shouldn't be facing a boss that can only be dealt with by shooting.

Yep. I don't mind a game that forces you to mix it up a bit and punishes players for over-specialization. But not if the game allows you to play a single way all the way through except for the boss battles.

Jason Moyer on 6/2/2013 at 01:57

It works on the third boss, he just can't be stunlocked because he'll start moving again slightly before your stun gun reloads. There's a faster/easier way to beat that fight anyway.

CCCToad on 6/2/2013 at 05:06

Quite a few are like that actually. HR is actually better than some because things like the tazer and stun grenades still work. I was able to quickly and easily defeat barret by throwing stun grenades, then running up behind him and dropping mines under his feet.

For good fights, there's a few that come to mind. The Mr. Freeze fight from Arkham City was brilliant because once you successfully perform one attack, he blocks that attack in the future. It forces you to use every tool you have at your disposal.

Also there are some exceptions to JRPG bosses. Some do force you to change your strategy. For example none of your status effects (like dizzy, panicked, etc) work on bosses in the Persona series.

heywood on 6/2/2013 at 08:14

Quote Posted by Jason Moyer

It works on the third boss, he just can't be stunlocked because he'll start moving again slightly before your stun gun reloads. There's a faster/easier way to beat that fight anyway.

For whatever reason, it just doesn't work for me. I can't stun him using the stun gun at all, not even momentarily. It seems to have zero effect, and I've gotten in pretty close range. I couldn't pull off the over-the-wall-takedown exploit either but I only tried it a few times. He's really easy to kill with the Typhoon or grenade launcher, pretty easy with regular frag grenades or the laser rifle, and even the lowly combat rifle can take him down if you don't mind running laps around the outside of the arena for 5-10 minutes. Overall, he seemed like the easiest of the three.

mgeorge on 6/2/2013 at 19:26

I hate boss fights in gen, but in this game they screwed up the whole premise of the franchise by including them. I think the game was way overrated personally. I managed to finish it, however I see no reason to replay it.

VTM Bloodlines, (which I'm playing now for the fifth time), is a bit like this in the fact that your're given options to utilize verbal and stealth skills, then throws a bunch of boss fights at you especially at the end. However Bloodlines has some of the best NPC's I've ever seen in a game, which makes the boss fights way less of an issue.

Same kind of thing with Alpha Protocol which I just finished. Horrible boss fights, but the game had such a great story and NP
C's that it's worth at least a couple of replays.

I'm honestly surprised that HR got so much praise here at TTLG as it did. I found it a very mediocre game.

Pyrian on 6/2/2013 at 21:20

:confused: So, you're contrasting three games with bad boss fights, yet somehow they only ruin DX:HR? ...Which has, BTW, by far the least annoying boss fights of the three games mentioned. In DX:HR, with minimal preparation and little or no build focusing, you can get through all three boss fights in short order. That's not true in Bloodlines, where you will absolutely need at least one and probably a couple of skills and abilities ramped up for combat if you're going to complete the game.

gunsmoke on 6/2/2013 at 21:52

Yeah, DX1 had shitty boss fights, too. It was easily excusable for me that HR has them. I honestly don't see the point in what some of you are asking for: a 'stealth fight'? The only game that pulled that one off was Deadly Shadows, and it was necessary. Ability to MGS-style incapacitate the bosses? I don't see it as a big need, sure you can stun/baton your way through the grunt soldiers, but the bosses are the ones pulling the strings, they need to die IMHO. It's a shooter, don't be scared to shoot things. DX: HR doesn't suffer as a game because its predecessor had a few different design decisions. It was 12 years ago. Games evolve and trends change. I applaud the hell out of DX: HR. It was a top 3 of the 360 generation, IMHO.