Phil Fish takes his ball and goes home

Dresden on 29/7/2013 at 00:48

☑ Your Privilege

Starker on 29/7/2013 at 01:40

Quote Posted by Dresden

☑ Your Privilege

Yup. Still there.

Boxsmith on 29/7/2013 at 03:15

Quote Posted by Starker

Here are the relevant tweets and comments:

Am I reading these out of order or something? It's baffling that Fish would eject all that bile, then retreat saying his feelings were hurt.

Yakoob on 29/7/2013 at 04:49

Just wanted to say, Dethy, your long-ass rant is pretty spot on. I don't think I even have anything more to add.

Going back to OP, while I haven't played Fez or care for Fish, I do kind of side with him on the fact he Jurno's reaction was unwarranted - "hey can we get a comment?" - ... - "OMG YOU ASSHOLE ARGHBLARGH." Dipshit or not, game devs are not required to answer to every single question they're asked by any random journalist just because.

But I'd agree that I haven't played Fez exactly because it looks like the kind of a "hey i'm so artsy and cool!" game that has been making me dislike the growing indie scene over the years...

henke on 29/7/2013 at 06:06

Quote Posted by dethtoll

That it has turned the Rohring BlowFish into the symbol of indie gaming is as much the fault of the media as it is the egos who hogged the camera as much as they could.

Quote Posted by Muzman

I second that feeling that, by reading RPS and having no idea about this XBLA crap, I feel like some kid who follows a techno fanzine and has no idea that NME are devoting issue after issue to every stupid word said between Liam Gallagher and Damon Albarn.

Hah, I'm with Muz on this one. I follow indie-gaming and I barely know who these people are. I only know who Fish is because of all of deth's posts about him (here, and on FB) over the past few days. I recognize Rohrer's name but couldn't say what he's made, and I've never heard of Blow before this thread.

june gloom on 29/7/2013 at 07:10

Jason Rohrer made (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3o0HFXPfco) this, (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57577883-1/game-meant-to-be-played-in-2000-years-gets-buried-in-desert/) this and (http://thiscageisworms.com/2013/07/24/on-why-i-will-never-play-the-castle-doctrine/) this. He doesn't talk much, which is good because his actual output is bad enough.

Phil Fish made (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fez_(video_game)) this, but before that he did (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-03-07-fez-creator-phil-fish-declares-modern-japanese-games-just-suck) this, (http://puu.sh/1XiR4) this, (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/07/the-competition-the-story-behind-the-igfs-critics/) this and (http://www.gatheryourparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/2241577-fish.png) this. And after the game was out he did (http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/1/17345/2472821-philfish.png) this and (http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/2/24038/2456914-1363631973040.png) this.

Jon Blow made (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braid_(video_game)) this. Unfortunately he's (http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/05/the-most-dangerous-gamer/308928/) this. And he did (http://www.gameranx.com/updates/id/12472/article/jonathan-blow-reaffirms-his-disdain-for-everyone-s-favorite-game/) this. And I can't find a clip but he complained in the documentary Indie Game: The Movie (which also showcased Phil Fish in all his manbaby glory) about his game getting perfect review scores because they were playing it wrong.

henke on 29/7/2013 at 07:21

Oh right. Yeah, I played Passage and Braid. I try to not learn too much about the people who make the entertainment I enjoy. Often it ends in disappointment. :erg:

Thirith on 29/7/2013 at 08:08

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, I think we should separate art (in the most general sense, i.e. not as a value statement) from its creator as much as possible when discussing its value; on the other, as soon as artists put themselves out there, they must be prepared to be criticised. Veering to the other side again, though, so much criticism on the internet is just stupid, facile, cynical name-calling with a generous side order of hypocrisy ("Person A is a total dick, and I'll exercise my right to be as much of a dick in calling him out on it!"), which is then piled on by so many commenters who wouldn't know a differentiated argument if it shaved their testicles and painted them purple, which often results in the criticism coming across like a bunch of gibbering, diseased monkeys flinging faeces, added to which such criticism tends to throw the baby out with the bathwater in its need to paint dickhead artists and their creations as altogether dismissible.

In this respect, I found the "While I will never play The Castle Doctrine" post very interesting, because it was very critical but equally thoughtful and well argued. I haven't read too much about The Castle Doctrine, but I've read a fair amount on Braid (and a bit less on Fez) and there's entirely too much reductive, boring criticism of indie games that defaults to the Pretentiousness Hammer.

Starker on 29/7/2013 at 08:27

Quote Posted by Boxsmith

Am I reading these out of order or something? It's baffling that Fish would eject all that bile, then retreat saying his feelings were hurt.

You likely missed Beer's diatribe.

henke on 29/7/2013 at 08:58

Quote Posted by Thirith

such criticism tends to throw the baby out with the bathwater in its need to paint dickhead artists and their creations as altogether dismissible. [...] there's entirely too much reductive, boring criticism of indie games that defaults to the Pretentiousness Hammer.

Indeed. I'm playing Fez at the moment and it's a bit saddening to see people ITT dissing it just because of it's creator. Granted, I'm only a little past half-way through it right now and PERHAPS it gets super-pretentious at the end and tells you to GET A NEW PERSPECTIVE ON YOUR OWN LIFE, MAN or something, but from where I'm standing right now? At 67% completion of the Story? Fez is about as un-pretentious as a game can get. It doesn't try to teach you anything about life, or games, or art. It's just a game. A exploration- and puzzle-solving-based game with beautiful visuals, great controls, and an innovative game-mechanic that is actually put to good use instead of just adding a wow-factor to it.