OrbWeaver on 25/4/2006 at 16:02

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Ghosting is an interesting challenge, and can certainly be satisfying if you achieve it, but I hate levels that force it through mission objectives.

jermi on 25/4/2006 at 21:52

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Ghosting becomes practical only when you know the mission inside out. Blackjacking everyone might be difficult but given a random guard, knocking him out is usually easier than ghosting.

What bothered me about Thief gameplay at some point, and perhaps still sometimes does to some extent, is that blackjacking is way too tempting compared to ghosting. First time on a mission, you run around in confusion trying to get to the objectives - it's just too much work to leave guards standing around since you might have to come back to the same location, possibly many times.

inselaffe on 26/4/2006 at 11:41

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I do proper ghosting, yet if there is something that you need to jump/ fire a noise arrow or normal one to make noise (but retrieve later) in order to lure guards away cos stuff would be impossible otherwise - I see no problem with this. For examle, I used this to get the golden hammer on the table at cragscleft, as you can't get it any other way. No one saw me in the mission, so it was okay. Obviously, if people hear you when you aren't trying to distract, then that is bad, but otherwise, I think it's okay.

Same with thieves guild (which I am currently stuck on). I will HAVE to put out the torches in the gambling bit cos otherwise it's impossible. I did do a rather nifty move coming in through the back door, mantling left on the counter to get food and managing to avoid not alerting the very nervous servant - anyone who's tried this will know it's not easy :D Of course, I then had to go back out and in through the front door, as you can't actually get past her without alerting, hehe.

So yer, I ghost but I want to collect everything too :) I think purposeful distractions are okay, but you should only really use them when there is not really any other way :)

Kurgan on 26/4/2006 at 17:54

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Bah. Humbug. A pox on ye all.

If you complete a mission, and anyone's left conscious, ya blew it. :ebil:

I think people are confusing "hard" with "a long time" when it comes to ghosting missions. Not whacking anyone on the noodle is easier, but God, it takes forever! Me, I make sure to take 'em all down, and brudduh, that ain't so easy. Lotsa people in places you can't easily get to, and/or in well-lit areas with multiple guards and such standing around. Can't club just one, or else the jig's up. Now, you find five guards standing together in a room with hard-lights that can't be snuffed, a tile floor, and one door, and you can blackjack 'em all, you come talk to me, cuz then I'll be impressed. Oh, sure I can do it, but it took friggin' years to master, and I still botch it sometimes. :thumb:

Oh, and speaking of hubris, I tried my "moves" in Thievery. Oh, momma, did I ever look like a clutz trying to give everyone unwanted comb-overs. Controls and movements just aren't the same, and take awhile to get used to. I'm standin' there being pretty damned ineffectual, and guys like Industrialism walk up and go, "No, like this..." thwack thwack thump thwack thump thump thwack Before I can blink, there's a pile of guards snoozin' away at my feet. I swear my wee-wee got smaller on the spot (s'okay, I can spare some). lol Nah, in that game, you've gotta "charge" your blackjack before you can hit 'em, and I still haven't got the timing down. I tend to release too quickly, and they turn around, brush some dandruff off their shoulder, then proceed to chase me across Hell and back with those painful maces while I desperately look for somewhere to climb outta reach, screaming "mommy" over and over again.

Marecki on 26/4/2006 at 21:27

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Myself, I like ghosting a lot. It's definitely much more challenging than blackjacking the enemies at will, there are hardly any places in all three Thief games which provide no opportunities of putting our targets to sleep, plus you have to take into account certain passages become essentially one-way. However, the very same reasons have eventually convinced me not to try ghosting missions I have never played before - it can be done, as long as the mission is ghostable at all of course, but can lead to a lot of frustration and thus take the fun out of the game.

That I'd say is the bottom line here: various styles are there to be used, but remember the primary goal here is to have fun. If you like ghosting, ghost. If you don't, don't. There is no evidence for elitism having ever increased anyone's penis size, you know ;)

Oh, and by the way: I strongly recommend using the Ultimate Difficulty mod for T1 and T2, it makes the game much more challenging for both ghosters and KOers. I have completed all the OM using it and it was quite a novel experience.