jtr7 on 8/7/2010 at 04:24
An option that's apparently never been brought up: A falchion is actually a lot more along the lines of a proper utility blade for what Garrett encounters, opens back up the return of varied obstacles in place of pickable/unlockable doors (I'd like to see some ruined/abandoned/neglected/forgotten areas with doors and gates and levers and gears rusted stiff, needing bashing or explosives to eliminate the problem). It does not evoke the stab and slice of an assassin's dagger, and recalls its roots as a tool first, a weapon second. It also doesn't conflict with his sword training with the Keepers so much, since he took what he wanted from the training and discarded many others (except he couldn't shake the nagging glyph warnings and having his next moves mapped out for him in ancient books that all irritated the hell out of him), and I don't have a problem with Garrett borrowing concepts, philosophies, and lessons for the purpose of technique, from his sword training, while adopting a better tool for his trade. It would, for better or worse, also show a leaning towards the Pagans, away from the City Watch and some Hammerites, to have a tool rooted in farming, but also slaughterhouses, and wouldn't carry the potential troubles associated with having the personal black blade of a Pagan god.
Beleg Cúthalion on 8/7/2010 at 13:01
A falchion or great knife (Grosses/langes Messer) or dussack would in fact be fitting "short swords" for the Thief period (although they were probably not made for thieves or I-trade-range-for-speed soldiers). However, I'm not fully convinced that the loss of weight or – more importantly – lenght is significant enough to compensate for the loss in damage. On the other hand I still don't associate a dagger with the "stab and slice" attitude, while a falchion or great knife would give me some plundering farmer impression.
In fact the rarity of having one of those lesser known weapons in Thief IV would make me want one of those, but as I said earlier I wouldn't want it for the usual mansion mission.
New Horizon on 8/7/2010 at 19:44
It's not earth...why can't there be a short sword? Thief isn't tied to our history...unless I missed the part in earths history where we had magical elemental crystals that could make moss grow, or knock people out with gasses.
Beleg Cúthalion on 8/7/2010 at 20:58
What reason would anyone in the Thief world have to shorten a sword, thus rendering it rather useless as a weapon, making it neither fish nor fowl? The thing with fantasy world different from reality is that you're likely to run into illogical dead ends. Like... why can the people in the Thief world build complicated machines but no firearms? Of course you can sacrifice the real-world logic to game aesthetics, but is it always worth the hassle? Plus, is the usual computer short sword aesthetically appealing?
The point we made (also in the other thread) is that even fantasy worlds like Thief have an inherent logic without which it would be completely unpredictable. And part of that is e.g. that a sword isn't magically altered to vanish once our hero presses the circumflex key. I mean, Garrett could also have a steam-powered crossbow like Van Helsing, a nice magazine of different bolts and it would of course be silent due to rather quiet sound effects. Turn a blind eye for the sake of fantasy and gameplay and there you go. But I guess there would be more people against it, even if the justification was similar to that of the short sword.
cast on 8/7/2010 at 21:43
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
What reason would anyone in the Thief world have to shorten a sword
Maybe to have it not get stuck every now and then while climbing and doing various other acrobatic moves?
While we're at bringing back the original T1/2 sword, we might aswell put Garrett into some chain mail - after all, it's functional "in case he needs to defend himself"... but it doesn't fit well, does it?
Someone earlier said that Garrett uses sword in first two games because he's "good at it"... well. He shouldn't be good at fencing, imo. He's a thief, not a thug.
Platinumoxicity on 8/7/2010 at 23:18
Quote Posted by cast
Someone earlier said that Garrett uses sword in first two games because he's "good at it"... well. He shouldn't be good at fencing, imo. He's a thief, not a thug.
Well, tell that to the Keepers who had him take years of training in all kinds of things, including fencing. He's good at fencing, but he's just better at thieving. :)
cast on 9/7/2010 at 17:30
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
Well, tell that to the Keepers who had him take years of training in all kinds of things
Yeah, but damn, three ages have already passed, Garrett being primarily a master thief had more than enough time to forget some useless skills he had been taught during childhood xd
ZylonBane on 9/7/2010 at 19:43
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
What reason would anyone in the Thief world have to shorten a sword, thus rendering it rather useless as a weapon, making it neither fish nor fowl?
The Roman Empire certainly seemed fond of them.
Beleg Cúthalion on 9/7/2010 at 20:05
The Roman Empire didn't have half of its inhabitants walking around with longer swords. A short sword is only a short sword if there are longer ones in the same military context, otherwise it's just the usual sword. If you don't bother thinking twice about it, look for the discussions I had with New Horizon and the screenplay writer.
ZylonBane on 9/7/2010 at 22:15
Every now and then, quite rarely actually, I will read a post that is so spectacularly stupid, so fractally wrong, so fundamentally divorced from rationality, that I actually wish physical harm upon the person who posted it, equal to the pain I suffered reading it.
This is one of those times.
