Sulphur on 6/3/2010 at 20:18
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
So the problem with episodes is that they're episodes. :erg:
Personally, I love a good one-liner/cheap shot, but you've got to try harder. I could have worded that better, but I think the context is pretty clear if you read the entire paragraph.
Taffer36 on 6/3/2010 at 20:41
Quote Posted by Sulphur
They're structured like miniature versions of a full game, so they go through the whole prelude to setup to climax within 4-5 hours, and it just isn't enough to sustain a complete experience.
I'm surprised you felt that way, because personally if anything I thought there was too much filler, especially in the second episode. With the purpose of the episodes being refinement over reinvention, I don't think they have enough material to increase the length.
I'd say that the problem with the episodes is:
1) HL2 was a fairly sizable game to the point where I felt like they explored the gameplay pretty thoroughly in the vanilla game itself. This is why I enjoyed the parts of the first episode with the souped up gravity gun, because that was ONE aspect of vanilla HL2 that was taken away before you got a chance to have too much fun with it.
2) the expansions have taken so fucking long to come out that expectations in gameplay have changed. If I wanted to revisit gameplay from 2004 I would replay HL2; I can't really see myself wanting to replay the episodes in the future.
june gloom on 6/3/2010 at 20:46
Quote Posted by Malleus
Which were...? Just curious.
Basically most of the street war, for one. Also the sandtraps, yet the parking garage sequences in E1 gave you all the fun of dealing with antlions but with an obvious, reliable way of cutting them off. They also have shown more creativity in how you fight Striders- at the end of Episode 1 it's working your way around a maze of sorts while trying to keep in cover until you can get to more explosives, and Episode 2 is a wild ride around a huge open area fighting off a bunch of Striders in a new way. The worst part of HL2, hands down, is towards the very end, right before the chapter Our Benefactors, where you're on top of a ruined building trying to stay alive while 2 Striders walk around shooting at you.
And while I love both HL2's vehicle sections, the Car in E2 is cooler and the driving sequence is shorter and more interesting. Not to mention getting to it in the first place is the goal of one of my favourite parts of E2, unlike HL2 where you're just handed the airboat and buggy.
Pardoner on 6/3/2010 at 21:02
Quote Posted by van HellSing
the ability to create portals through portals.
This is almost possible in the original game. You can tiptoe over the edge of a portal, fire a new one, and jerk yourself back through before the new portal forms.
I think it's a requirement for beating all the challenge maps.
Malleus on 6/3/2010 at 21:17
Quote Posted by dethtoll
The worst part of HL2, hands down, is towards the very end, right before the chapter Our Benefactors, where you're on top of a ruined building trying to stay alive while 2 Striders walk around shooting at you.
Lol, for me that part is still a dozen, no wait, a hundred times better than the final battle in Ep2. Oh how I hated that part in Ep2.
Anyway, I didn't mind the street war part because it made sense in the story and showed how the resistance slowly worked their way to the citadel. Like how the 'long' vehicle sections conveyed a sense of distance (for me), the lenght of the street war conveyed a sense of struggle, that making it to the sitadel is not a simple job, it takes time and resources.
The first half of the sandtraps part is indeed probably the weakest link in the chain of HL2 chapters, I can agree with that, but the beach scene, the assault on the prison made up for it (pretty much my favorite part, together with the prison itself).
june gloom on 6/3/2010 at 21:31
The assault on the prison != tiptoeing around a bunch of rocks/using the gimmick gun to create a path (which doesn't even make any goddamn sense if they're reacting to vibrations in the sand.) The beach assault is fucking awesome.
That's another thing about the episodes- the gravity gun is much less of a gimmick than it was in HL2. You find yourself only using it when you need it, rather than having it out as a matter of course.
Enchantermon on 6/3/2010 at 22:29
Portal 2! Excellent! :D
The only parts of EP1 and 2 that I thoroughly didn't like were pushing the cars into the antlion holes (and that's only because I kept getting mobbed by the darn things), the sand crossing (fun at first, but got old really fast) and the driving bits, especially the strider battle at the end, which would have been better if I didn't suck at driving (though, to be fair, after a little practice I was able to enjoy the battle more). Other than that, both episodes were quite enjoyable.
Quote Posted by Sulphur
You know what the problem with the episodes is? They're too feckin' short. They're structured like miniature versions of a full game, so they go through the whole prelude to setup to climax within 4-5 hours, and it just isn't enough to sustain a complete experience.
What ZB was getting at is that you're complaining about the episodes being episodes. They're
supposed to be short and self-contained.
SubJeff on 7/3/2010 at 00:32
Portals through portals a la ND would be great.
Sulphur on 7/3/2010 at 05:04
Quote Posted by Enchantermon
What ZB was getting at is that you're complaining about the episodes being episodes. They're
supposed to be short and self-contained.
I'm complaining not about the episodes being not so much 'episodic' as I am about the fact they are miniature expansion packs. The episodes were supposed to be Half Life 3 as far as Valve were concerned. I don't see that. The gameplay hasn't been furthered, and while the tech has been improved somewhat, it's not quite enough any more.
For the amount of time Valve's taken to deliver each episode, they're really, really short. And there's hardly any over-arching momentum built up as each episode is self-contained. I'm looking forward to Ep.3 because I know Valve's going to end it with a bang, but the fact is that Ep.2 had very little build-up to it because of the format.
Quote Posted by Taffer36
I'm surprised you felt that way, because personally if anything I thought there was too much filler, especially in the second episode. With the purpose of the episodes being refinement over reinvention, I don't think they have enough material to increase the length.
I don't remember the mission statement for the episodes being stated as such, but if it was -- it's not like the gameplay in HL2 needed much refinement to begin with. I don't really recall that much filler in Ep.2 - apart from the antlion caves being a boring sack of suck (w/apologies to dethtoll :D), it seemed pretty tight to me.
Enchantermon on 7/3/2010 at 05:14
Quote Posted by Sulphur
For the amount of time Valve's taken to deliver each episode, they're really, really short.
This is true, but the problem is not the length of the episodes but the length of time in development. Episodic games should have pieces released more frequently than what Valve ended up doing.
