june gloom on 9/7/2006 at 20:13
Quote Posted by Solabusca
Their technology is what Karras uses in the Servant project - the masks and cultivators are Precursor tech. Also, not the illuminating crystals spread out around the Lost City. They also make a small electric hum when powering up.
i never really thought of that hum as "electric". if not outright magical, there's some kind of science to it as to how they light up when something enters the room, but i would hardly consider it electric unless i had concrete proof.
Quote Posted by Fallen+Keeper
I thought that the nature of the cataclysm that put their existance to an end was not specified. Where did you get that info?
some of the scrolls you can find indicate that the scientific minds of KD were concerned about a volcanic catastrophe, and depending on whether or not you accept the idea that it was caused by the people of KD worshipping dark gods like cthulhu (see the statue towards the end of lost city) it could've been either natural, or supernatural.
arguably, it could also have been caused by the trickster, who seems to stand outside of the "mythos" pantheon that KD religion seemed to have been involved with. it's all up to interpretation.
Krenim on 9/7/2006 at 21:28
Well, we do not know what type of disaster befell on KD, but it seems to me it was a natural one.
Also I always thought the Precursor mastered both magic and technology.
Holywhippet on 10/7/2006 at 01:03
The Precursor's seem to differ slightly in background between the first two games. It kind of makes me wonder if they'd thought that bit out much.
The mind controlling masks, rust gas and other items suggest that the Precursors had a strong grasp on material sciences or at least a good understanding of chemistry. The mean by which the masks work is unclear though - they could be supplying electricity to their recipient in order to control their mind. Or they could be using some form of magic. Admittedly the former is more likely since the servants appear to have been killed before having their mask attached (IMO).
However, despite their advancements the Precursors appear to have been a superstitious people. From what I can recall, the King believed that the Gods needed to be appeased because the nearby volcano was starting to become active. Others thought it had nothing to do with the Gods and that it was a natural phenomenon. I'm guessing that the volcano did erupt and took out most or all of the populace. The city became buried under volcanic rock and ash. The Keepers presumably discovered a way into the city at some point and blocked the entrance to stop the knowledge that the Precursors possessed from getting into the wrong hands.
That being said, one of the quotes from the Keepers regarding the City was something like "When we look at the knowledge of the Precursors we see that heights that civilization can reach. When we look at the ruins of their city we mark the dangers of reaching such heights." Well, something like that. The implication in that statement is that their own power was their downfall. Perhaps they were drawing power from the volcano or something.
Printer's Devil on 10/7/2006 at 02:13
I always imagined that the Cthulu statue simmering away in the Lost City referred, via HP Lovecraft, to the non-human nature of the Precursors. The Kurshok from TDS seems to echo that idea. In the face of extinction, they may have interbred with some humans, eventually giving rise to the "supernatural" factions in the Thief universe.
Holywhippet on 10/7/2006 at 04:01
Quote Posted by Printer's Devil
I always imagined that the Cthulu statue simmering away in the Lost City referred, via HP Lovecraft, to the
non-human nature of the Precursors. The Kurshok from TDS seems to echo that idea. In the face of extinction, they may have interbred with some humans, eventually giving rise to the "supernatural" factions in the Thief universe.
The Kurshok are an offshoot of the pagans though. The pagans are about as low tech as you can get - that doesn't really match up with the Precursors who are more high tech in certain things.
I'm trying to recall if there was anything in the lost city to suggest if they were human or not though. Weren't there a sarcophagus or two lying around? They have human features on them.
CountMRVHS on 10/7/2006 at 14:57
I always assumed they were humans. And I never saw that statue as Cthulhu, either; I just thought it was some kind of winged figure that had melted. Have to look closer next time.
One of the notes in the Lost City also led me to suspect that the order of the Keepers was descended from a similar organization in the lost city itself. Can't remember details, but it mentioned something about having to hide some information... seemed very Keeperish anyway.
june gloom on 10/7/2006 at 17:06
to me it doesn't seem that the kurshok were the original inhabitants of the sunken citadel- according to TDS, the trickster, becoming angry with them, cast them down. their fall from grace led them to seek refuge in the citadel as a home base (though it's fair to assume that they've taken up residence in other places around the city too, places similar to the caverns beneath the opera house where there's a lot of water.)
to me this is how it goes:
* precursors live in KD.
* KD turns into a hellhole. trickster's fault??
* survivors band together, cursing the darkness- from which the trickster taunts them and gives them much trouble.
* out of this someone comes up with the idea of the master builder and the whole hammer religion. out of this springs some buildings as people start taking hammers to build things and defend themselves against the trickster's minions. (this could also be considered as to why hammers and pagans don't get along- the entire hammer belief system was rooted in defense against pagan creatures!)
* sometime after the fall of KD, the trickster casts the kurshok down. kurshok take up residence in what's left of the citadel, as well as places around the city. AFAIK we never really see them until TDS, but they're there, as evidenced by some trophies on some peoples' walls. (they could also be occasionally at war with other trickster minions, such as the craymen, who seem like they'd happily horn in on kurshok territory.)
Solabusca on 10/7/2006 at 18:29
I've said this before, I think the Trickster is given too much creedence here. I'd say that the Trickster is a god that rose after the fall of KD, when the world was a darker, more dangerous place. He's one of the old gods that men worshipped before the Builder came along.
I'd say that the destruction of Karath Din came about as a result of dark deals with Elder Beings in the Lovecraftian sense; other gods came after.
.j.
jtr7 on 10/7/2006 at 19:52
Going back to technology, don't forget the lever and the machine for extending the bridge.
Or the strategically-placed frying pan.:p
june gloom on 11/7/2006 at 07:12
Quote Posted by Solabusca
I've said this before, I think the Trickster is given too much creedence here. I'd say that the Trickster is a god that rose after the fall of KD, when the world was a darker, more dangerous place. He's
one of the old gods that men worshipped before the Builder came along.
I'd say that the destruction of Karath Din came about as a result of dark deals with Elder Beings in the Lovecraftian sense; other gods came after.
.j.
i've been thinking about this, and i'd like to revise my timeline a bit. a lot of this is conjecture, of course.
* people worship the trickster/nature. his is a very primal religion, and as more advanced technologies start filtering in, so do more rounded religions- perhaps the "mythonian" religion (to give it a proper name) was adopted after being an outside influence, shoving the paganism aside as the dominant faith?
* the trickster basically says "what" but as karath din is built and people do not fear the darkness as much (they'd have to be pretty brave to worship the elder gods...) the trickster does not have the power he once held.
* karath din falls. there are three possible theories as to why, at least to me. feel free to add your own.
* the trickster did it. he's a nature god, he can do it. just a nice volcano and everyone fries.
* the elder gods did it. probably just for the hell of it.
* nature itself did it, with no provocation by the trickster. sometimes people build on or near volcanoes. see: pompeii.
* whatever the cause of the fall of karath din, the survivors band together, perhaps having lost faith in the mythonian religion and some reverting to the more primal, nature-based religion of paganism. out of this comes those who still remember how the city protected them from the darkness, and thus teach of forge and fire, and build a new city.
* the trickster says "aw hell naw."
* after several hundred years, the trickster is plotting the downfall of the city. he possibly hadn't thought of using the eye until after the whole zombie rampage at the cathedral.
* the trickster still has to wait a while before he can find someone brave/stupid enough, and still good enough, to head into the cathedral and get the eye out alive. then along comes garrett.
* while he's looking for a way to destroy the city, he's also being the angry primal god the he is and tossing the kurshok out on their asses, leaving them to seek refuge in the citadel and the sunken caverns beneath the city.
