<Username> on 20/10/2022 at 10:58
I have been thinking about this for some time. There are Thief fan missions that at one point had a full, public release. Later, their authors decided they wanted to change the mission and then released an updated version. This goes beyond small updates to fix issues that previously had been discovered during testing of the initial release version. Some of these updated versions add whole new areas, change the objectives, or even rewrite the story.
There are missions where earlier publicly released versions are still available for download. For example, Elevator Mission v1 and v2 for T1 by JIS are both still available. Savar has several missions for T3 and most of them had multiple versions.
Personally, I have a lot of fun playing and comparing versions of a mission. Sometimes I even prefer earlier versions: Elevator Mission v1 felt grittier and had some elements that I missed in v2. Savar's The Blue Rose v1.1 is my preferred version of the mission, even though a lot of work went into expanding it in v2.0 and v3.0.
I discovered some earlier versions of fan missions get lost when only the last one is preserved on download sites. Several earlier versions of Savar's missions seem to be lost. Even the author himself does not have a copy anymore.
What do you think: Should download sites preserve earlier public releases versions of Thief fan missions?
Aemanyl on 20/10/2022 at 11:31
I believe download sites should preserve earlier versions of Thief missions, unless these files are too big and/or the updated file is simply a minor patch not changing anything substantial in the gameplay or design. Though we have come a long way since the limitations of the Internet of the early 2000s, an updated version weighing a few hundred megabytes is probably a waste of space.
mxleader on 23/10/2022 at 16:39
This seems like a lot of work for one or more people and a lot space taken up on servers but I totally get it. I have saved several versions of missions myself even though I know it takes up a lot of space. Also, I have two sets of DVD's from a number of years ago when you could send DVDs with a return envelope to other members and they would send copies of many missions that were too large to download if you had a dial up modem. It's kind of a pain to filter out the missions that were buggy and probably shouldn't be saved.
zappenduster on 24/10/2022 at 08:12
DL sites should not preserve earlier public releases versions of Thief FMs. What for? IMHO this only causes confusion, those earlier versions usually have not been replaced without reason. Why DL'ing an older version with bugs or other flaws?
After the release of
(http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131219) Garrett's Young Years XTra I contacted all DL site admins in order to have removed the obsolete FMs because so many things have been ameliorated or overworked.
<Username> on 24/10/2022 at 17:38
Great posts. This is the discussion I was hoping for.
Personally, I am leaning towards Aemanyl's position that download sites should preserve earlier release versions of Thief missions, unless later versions simply patched minor issues and did not introduce any substantial changes in gameplay or design.
I also understand zappenduster's position about it being the author's decision if earlier release versions can be kept or should be replaced. I think in cases where the author has not communicated they want earlier versions to be deleted, there is nothing wrong with keeping them available.
It gets more tricky in cases where the author wants earlier release versions deleted: Is it really the author's decision? Or is the release of a Thief fan mission a social phenomenon that belongs to the general public of fans and their participatory/remix culture?
klatremus on 25/10/2022 at 02:00
I love this topic! I have thought several times about the risk of these early versions getting lost, so I deliberately downloaded the ones I knew about from missions I had played. Elevator mission I haven't played, but I made sure to obtain that one also. The Enterprise and Mines of Margroth from Keeper of the Prohecies and Ruins of Originia campaigns, respectively, are other examples. I don't think this is something to expect download sites to have on hand though, but it would be cool if there was at least one dedicated website that kept an archive of these "older" releases.
I would reiterate what Username already pointed out earlier, that these are not mere initial releases that later got a few bugfixes and are now version 1.004c. These are editions prior to complete overhauls, or where the initial release was for Thief 1 and it got completely reworked for a new T2 release, perhaps as a part of a bigger campaign.
Taylor on 25/10/2022 at 05:41
I'd think it's valid to keep old version of FMs, if they're significantly different than a new update or re-release. This is especially true in case major elements of the story or the gameplay are changed in subsequent release (which usually happens when a sequel is added or in Newdark reworks I think).
Of course keeping legacy versions around only have a point if the new version changes the mission itself significantly. No need to keep an old version for the sake of being original, if the new version only fixes minor bugs and errors, (or especially if the update is done due to a critical bug being missed in betatesting/etc.) or if the changes are hardly noticeable ingame (e.g. a script is replaced with a better and more stable one to do basically the same but more effectively/less likely to be broken).
Lord Soth on 26/10/2022 at 15:20
Pointless thing to do. Play an outdated mission with bugs and other problems or play an updated version which gives a better and smoother playing experience, well that's a no brainer to say the least. Doubling the size of a web site and managing it would be a pain.
Taffers will only use updated version of a mission, that will not change at all.
baeuchlein on 26/10/2022 at 15:28
Quote Posted by Lord Soth
Taffers will only use updated version of a mission, that will not change at all.
Wrong. In some cases, I do play both versions of a mission that underwent significant changes not related to bugs. For example, I sometimes play the Thief 1 version of "Mines of Margroth", although an updated and changed version exists in the "Ruins of Originia" campaign. Also, I consider the single mission "Bad Venture", which later made a reappearance in "Keeper of Infinity I+II", to be different enough from the later campaign release to count as a different experience for me. While I don't vote for keeping everything that once existed available for download 24/7, I would make a few exceptions, such as the ones mentioned above.
ticky on 28/10/2022 at 09:10
I really dig this idea. My personal favorite is the original version of Eastwater Bank, which is mostly available on fan mission download sites. However, the follow up or extended version of it is called Eastwater Bank Gold, and maybe handled completely as a different mission.
