Marzec on 25/12/2023 at 13:02
It's even harder when you think that Timon included many polish culture references inside this FM as well.
Thanks again Fortuni.
The file is now on Thief Guild page as well.
Happy Holidays everyone.
Urumo on 25/12/2023 at 14:25
Hi Fortuni,
because of your WT, I'm now in a better position to fully enjoy this little gem of a mission.
The Overview is compiled in a reasonable order, showing what's going on, what is needed to do, and why. And the translations to the keys and other items of note are very helpful to understand what I picked up and where I have to use it. And last but not least: the map, neatly labelled - very useful.
Good job, indeed!
I'd like to take the opportunity to express my appreciation for all the reference guides, lootlists and maps you've made over the years. They are always a good help to complete a mission.
Thanks again & greetings,
Urumo
Komag on 26/12/2023 at 12:28
I'm in the camp that says we would all be better off by having fortuni's translation. If Timon ever produces his own translation (which might never happen), then of course use that instead. But in the mean time, it's wrong to deny everyone a quality translation service.
baeuchlein on 26/12/2023 at 16:05
Quote Posted by Komag
I'm in the camp that says we would all be better off by having fortuni's translation. If Timon ever produces his own translation (which might never happen), then of course use that instead.
AFAIK, Timon also wanted to fix some (mostly minor) problems with "Prezent" first. Anyway, I prefer not to publish anything without the author's consent, especially since Timon seems to be still active on the Polish forums, and not vanished from the earth (or at least the internet) so far.
Quote Posted by Atropos
Since you can speak english I would recommend you to translate such things into english. From my experience german translations with google or those on youtube aren't of a good quality. The german translation always seems to be a literal translation of the english version and not one from the initial source.
When I decided to try a translation just for myself in order to play this good-looking mission, your ideas were also a theory of mine, and I chose the direct translation from Polish to German because I want to see whether that went as good as another case, where I went through a partially automatic and then refined english translation first, and then made a german translation of that. And indeed, back at that time (several years ago), the theory proved to be fact. However, some small experiments I made suggest that the quality of automatic translations has increased during the last years. Still, no automatic translation I had was ever perfect, and I always spent considerable time to extract the real meaning from the output. I'd say that polishing takes time, but speaking of
polishing in this thread could cause misinterpretations, I guess.;)
Quote Posted by Marzec
It's even harder when you think that Timon included many polish culture references inside this FM as well.
Well, I almost certainly did not notice these, so they might have been lost in my translation.
Atropos on 26/12/2023 at 17:51
Quote Posted by Komag
But in the mean time, it's wrong to deny everyone a quality translation service.
It's not wrong just because it's not the best for you. It's the authors choice and he/she has every right to make that decission.
@baeuchlein: I didn't meant that translating it first into english and then german would guarantee a better outcome. I meant that german translations in general are bad. Even translating from english to german usually doesn't get you a good result. Even with german and english being so similiar. Works better the other way around though. That's why I even as a german native speaker I prefer english translations.
Komag on 27/12/2023 at 03:23
Maybe a comparison could be...what if a book author said you're not allowed to provide braille for blind people, or a painter said you're not allowed to describe the painting to anyone who can't see it for themselves. For a fan mission, what if I had a friend who speaks Polish, am I allowed to have him sit next to me and translate for me? No? Yes? If that's allowed, then why not my acquaintance on the internet? On the other hand, you can't just release your own recorded audio book version of any book you find published due to it being commercial with copyright, so maybe it's better to think of it like that.
fortuni on 27/12/2023 at 12:37
There's nothing wrong with your logic, the issue here is a moral one. Historically this community has always respected the wishes of authors, the argument for respecting authors wishes is that if you do something that one author expressively stated they didn't want you to do, it will more than likely make other authors, both past and present, consider the trust they place in this community not to alter their work.
In his email to me Timon expressly stated he did not want me to release my translated version because I had used Google translate as that service is 90% rubbish. However he didn't expressly state that he would object to a proper Polish to English proof read translation, he only stated that one day he hoped to release his own English version of this mission. Obviously you can read into that what you will, but I decided not to release the version I made because it's overall pretty rubbish and because Timon asked me not to.
But if someone else was to release a correctly translated version made by a Polish-English proof reader I would happily d/l and play that version, but I do not wish to be involved in such a project.
The problem comes if Timon discovers a new zip has been released, if he takes offence and requests all hosting sites to remove the new zip would you do so? Would he also request the original Prezent_Pol.zip also be removed, would you do that as well?
In the past when authors have withdrawn their missions all hosting sites have agreed to that request (apart from one instance that I can think of), so by releasing a translated zip you could potentially end up losing a mission from the Thief community entirely.
Atropos on 27/12/2023 at 14:16
Sry fortuni, but there is absolutely no logic behind Komags comparison. Not being able to speak polish is not a disabilty. To compare braille to an english translation therefor doesn't make any sense.
US-Americans should just finally understand, that not everything is revolving around them and stop to expect that everything is going to happen according to their wishes. To accept the authors wishes what should be done with his/ her work is the bare minimum everyone should be able to do.
You have fortunis walkthrough and the ability to translate it yourself. That should be enough.
Komag on 28/12/2023 at 09:32
Those are decent points.
radogoal on 28/12/2023 at 09:54
can't find a downloadlink :confused::confused:
