Sulphur on 28/11/2008 at 05:51
Quote Posted by Chade
So ... just like sands of time huh?
Ehm, no. Put some effort into that sarcasm, mate!
Quote Posted by Renzatic
I'm sure like Sands of Time, you'll only have so many screw ups before you run out of sand/she just let you fall. Probably while yelling "you're a clumsy clutz and ain't worth the effort" a split second before you hit the spikes with circular saws coming out of them.
I don't think that's the case... apparently, the game never pulls out an "oh shit, you DEAD Persian Niggah!!! Wanna try that again?" screen. Elika just yanks you away from certain death and you try it again, ad infinitum.
And you're right about the music, Eva. Except the majority of Warrior Within, which they didn't have much of a say in for obvious reasons.
Thirith on 28/11/2008 at 10:21
I honestly don't see the equivalent of infinite rewinds as dumbing the game down. You still have to beat the section that you mucked up on. Having to replay the last five minutes doesn't make for more intelligent gameplay. As much as I loved Sands of Time, I think it would have been a better game with infinite rewind (but limited slo-mo, clearly). Having to replay certain sections again and again didn't really add anything to the game (because those bits of it before the hard part were usually simple enough that you didn't even get practice out of redoing them).
Sulphur on 28/11/2008 at 12:46
The mechanic doesn't dumb down the game any. It's more about there being no penalty for screwing up, just like the ol' Bioshock argument.
I don't mind the idea for the platforming sections - the idea of her pulling you out every time you accidentally vault into the abyss is valid; I just find it a rather pansy way of filling up the time rewind-sized hole in the gameplay.
In the previous games, there was an immense sense of satisfaction upon completion of really challenging segments -- even more so when you only had one sand tank remaining. I'm not seeing much, if any, challenge this time around because of the defanged game mechanics.
Maybe I'm being too harsh; I haven't played it, after all. I'd actually like to see the game design prove me wrong when it's released.
Thirith on 28/11/2008 at 13:03
Quote Posted by Sulphur
In the previous games, there was an immense sense of satisfaction upon completion of really challenging segments -- even more so when you only had one sand tank remaining. I'm not seeing much, if any, challenge this time around because of the defanged game mechanics.
I actually see exactly the same amount of challenge (since you still have to complete the section you failed on), just less repetition until you get to retry the section.
In my opinion, ideally the punishment of screwing up shouldn't be of the "You're dead. Reload" variety - or at least that shouldn't be the only option. Reloading and replaying the five minutes before the bit where you fell to your death is boring at best, frustrating at worst. It's somewhat different in games where your replay of the last five minutes may play completely differently, but in
Prince of Persia you basically played a carbon copy of what you'd done the first n times. It was basically downtime, nothing else.
However, as you said, we'll have to see how it plays out in practice. :)
Sulphur on 28/11/2008 at 13:16
I get what you're saying, and I mostly agree. My post was a random mash-up of thoughts, really. And I forgot to point out that the mechanic also extends to the combat, which is a slightly bigger problem.
Basically, enemy encounters boil down to simple attrition, so it doesn't matter how you play, you'll win anyway. No penalties, again; the enemy's health bar just recharges a bit if you do screw up. Makes me wonder what that in-depth combo system is there for.
Thirith on 28/11/2008 at 16:13
I agree with your points about combat - if anything, I'd be okay with easy difficulty restoring some of the opponent's health and hard restoring all of it, for instance.
The_Raven on 28/11/2008 at 20:20
Quote Posted by Renzatic
Even if it is super easy and you never die once, I'll still buy it simply because it's the best looking game this generation based on the strength of its art direction, rather than yet more Shiny Shaders n' Shit.
I, personally, do not find the art style appealing or appropriate at all. The screenshots I've seen hardly give me the impression that this is a Prince of Persia title. Plus, what the fuck is up with the claw?
michaelg on 29/11/2008 at 18:57
I tried to play the Sands of Time not to long ago for a second time as I recieved a free copy of it with my preorder of SC Chaos Theory a few years ago.
It's a gorgeous looking game even today, however for the second time, I got to this point (I think about the midway through the game), where you reach this level where you're fighting what seems like hundreds of enemys. It's a very long, very boring sequence where you just mash and mash buttons for 15 min. or so, and then if you fuck up, because of the stupid save system, you have to start all over again. I finally beat it, but heard there's lot of other "battles" like this in the game and gave up on it again.
It's to bad because although I generally don't like platformers, the controls for the PC are very good, and up to this point, the game was a whole lot of fun.
Chade on 30/11/2008 at 01:49
Quote Posted by Sulphur
Ehm, no. Put some effort into that sarcasm, mate!
Oh, come on ... you got
more then enough lives in SoT (which I love, btw). There comes a point where adding more just doesn't make all that much difference.
Sulphur on 2/12/2008 at 18:19
Sure, but not on your very first play through, when you're not able to run through the game blindfolded. And you certainly needed most of those lives when it came to the at-times dodgy combat... at least, I did.
Getting down to brass tacks, it's basically the psychology of it: combat works because there's the risk of death to it.
Remove that completely, and the experience is not so much about the game any more than it's about the narrative, graphics, and soundtrack. Like a... well -- like a movie.*
Which won't so bad if these three elements are at a suitably high level. Given Ubisoft's track record, we can safely assume the last two will be pretty damn high.
But the plot? Ah, now there's a question. It'd be stupid to expect something on the level of say, Memento... but oh well, what the hell, I'm willing to dial down my expectations and see how it turns out.
*And FWIW, I was quite interested in Bioshock's narrative and played it without making use of the VitaChambers. Yes, I'm doggedly old-fashioned, doggone it!
