Kolya on 18/3/2011 at 01:47
The few cases I heard of where psychotherapists offered anonymous help for paedophiles were quickly overrun. As I said before, paedophilia is assumed to be a sexual orientation similar to homo- or hetero-sexuality. It's nothing these people can simply change if they want to or if you just threaten them enough. They are in fact well aware of their social stigma, so they hide it.
Try to imagine for a moment if someone told you to stop getting aroused by naked women. And if you don't, he'd punish you with a machete. How would you react? Do you think you could stop loving women if it was for your life? Or would you lie about it?
None of that means that paedophilia was acceptable. But it needs to be treated like a psychological illness with long term therapy offers, and if necessary with observation and control.
I certainly understand that you want to protect your family, so do I. But this pre-emptive irrational hate on people, who might be able to live a normal life if they got help, doesn't achieve what you want: Safety for your loved ones.
Even if you were allowed such atrocities you couldn't go and exterminate all paedos. And that brings me to something else:
I feel that people who proudly talk about their burning hate for paedophiles tend to sound more than happy, actually aroused by the thought of being able to unleash their dark, violent and inhumane side. Finally there is a target that they will need no excuse for attacking most viciously.
This has as much to do with saving innocent children as Mario has with saving the princess. It's a power fantasy that frolics over the idea of making another human suffer without fear of retaliation. And it is one part of what's driving this hateful obsession with anything that could be paedophilia.
Do you seriously believe the girl in that ad was abused for this photo? No. But you like to imagine that somewhere there was a sick pervert who gets off on it, whom you would kill in the most ferocious way. But if that imaginary pervert doesn't exist, what does that make you?
Tocky on 18/3/2011 at 02:15
I think you don't know shit. Particularly about the scars one picks up in life. And most definitely about me. You cling to armchair hypothosis as if it could fend off reality. Good luck with that. The girl in the photo just starts a cascade of unwanted memories. Most of the time I'm a happy guy by nature. It is nice to know there are people who can live in a textbook world though.
PigLick on 18/3/2011 at 02:38
Kolya is right though, you know. I understand as soon as the word paedo comes up, that emotion takes over (I have kids too). But think about this, what if you WERE a paedophile, that you knew you found young children sexually attractive. It would be like being an alcoholic, you cant control it. Imagine if you were a pretty decent person, you had a family, good job, the respect of peers. Imagine the shame and guilt you would experience from having these feelings, that you must lock away deep down inside.
So what do you do? Nothing, you get on with life, and everytime some evil paedo is caught with downloaded kiddie porn you sigh with relief that you have the willpower they didnt.
Empathy must extend to all, even the hard targets.
fett on 18/3/2011 at 02:58
Quote Posted by PigLick
So what do you do? Nothing, you get on with life, and everytime some evil paedo is caught with downloaded kiddie porn you sigh with relief that you have the willpower they didnt.
That's exactly the point. You do NOTHING. You don't ACT on those instincts. I got nothing against someone who has harmful thoughts, or even someone who beats off to Dora cartoons. Whatever. Just keep your dick away from kids and we're fine. If they can't do that, they deserve no empathy, IMO. The fact that their instinct overrides the horror of destroying a kid's entire life, taking their innocence, and sending a family into a spiral of guilt, confusion, and agony = no empathy from me.
We distinguish ourselves from other animals because for the most part, we are able to control those instincts which directly harm fellow humans. We don't eat our vomit, we don't fuck in the street, and we don't howl at the moon because being human sets us apart from being ruled by these baser instincts. So what happens when a human doesn't control such an instinct, and consequently kills or destroys the life of a child? I call them "animal" - and though I wouldn't go so far as to say they should be put to death, they certainly should be quarantined forever, away from society, and they have given up all rights to be treated as a fellow human - they are unable/unwilling to behave as one.
Tocky on 18/3/2011 at 03:06
Oh I know that, Pig. He just makes it so obvious he has no idea where the hate comes from. He arrogantly assumes it's some power trip instead of a powerless hopeless pit you rage against. I'm glad he has never had to deal with the effect of child abuse. I don't want him to ever become a psychologist though because he can't read the most obvious signs or even remember things previously said or understand any of the enormity of having to deal with the other side of the equation.
So what do you do? Nothing. You get on with life until it comes back. Then you rage for a little while and call up an old friend (you need to keep plenty because shit needs a thin spread). You break a little then laugh again and you are okay. For awhile. You extend all the empathy you can muster for as long as it lasts this time.
I don't mean to say I can empathize with those who treat powerless children as a piece of meat to be used and discarded of course.
PigLick on 18/3/2011 at 03:21
I think you underestimate Kolya a bit there Tocky, whilst I understand you guys dont see eye to eye much, I really think he has some good things to say. The people we have been discussing just now do need help, they need help without being branded a 'monster' for the rest of their lives. This is what Kolya is saying.
Azaran on 18/3/2011 at 03:47
I think if you act on it, you should be castrated. Plus, it would put an end to repeat offenders - period
Tocky on 18/3/2011 at 03:55
He has some good things to say but I don't underestimate him. I'm sure I need reminding not everything can be solved by violence. Some immediate things can. You can stop a man from beating his wife instead of calling 911 and watching her die as an example. Things violence has served me well for. It's not a go to response but it's not a never use one either. My son even stopped a rape in progress once. Should I have taught him violence is NEVER to be used and empathize with the rapist?
As far as the pain of helping someone you love deal with past abuse for a prolonged period of time or of dealing with a death related to it he hasn't a fucking clue. There are multiple horrors to deal with in some peoples lives. There are a lot of things I don't even feel he has earned the right to know. His empathy is mostly in the other direction.
Azaran you aren't helping. Though there is some argument for chemical castration as it soves thier problem with no pain.
One more thing then I have got to decompress- Glen Gross and his brother held down a 3 year old and raped her for thier own twisted need ignoring her cries of pain and fear. They had NO empathy. How is that not a monster?
PigLick on 18/3/2011 at 04:45
No one is arguing a against a case like that, of course, or that all violence is bad, its that kneejerk reaction that you get from most people. You can be a monster without being a paedophile, just as I reckon you could be a paedophile and still be a credit to society.
I myself have been the target of a sexual predator, (in my mid teens, not as a child mind you), its a very confusing and guilt ridden thing to go through, though in my case it never evolved into any sexual activity. Was that person a monster? No, though the person used power and a subtle fear, plus natural curiosity, they werent evil, just wanted some adolescent booty.
Azaran on 18/3/2011 at 05:05
Quote Posted by Tocky
Azaran you aren't helping. Though there is some argument for chemical castration as it soves thier problem with no pain.
We won't know until we try it. I think chemical castration is just a temporary fix and requires constant monitoring to ensure the offender is indeed taking his shots...physical castration on the other hand gets rid of the problem for good.
