vfig on 23/11/2018 at 20:46
Attention skacky and contest FM authors:
So, there's a problem with Thief Gold's zombies when running with NewDark, where they never resurrect, and after loading a savegame will usually appear standing up and frozen. TFix includes a working fix for this, but players who aren't using TFix—that is, those using the GOG NewDark release*, or those using any other release who have installed NewDark some other way—are going to encounter this bug. It's not a game-breaking bug, but certainly impacts gameplay.
(*The GOG NewDark release actually includes the fix, but it only gets applied for the OMs or FMs without a custom gamesys, not when running an FM with a custom gamesys.)
This is gonna be an issue for some players, for all contest FMs that include zombies—unless the FM author has manually applied the fix to their gamesys.
The fix (from voodoo47) is to locate the M-ZombiePossum (-1806) metaproperty, edit its Efficiency Settings property, and turn on both the Allow Effic. While Visible and Allow Effic. While Combat flags. (This could alternatively be done with a gamesys.dml packaged with the FM.)
(There are several other Thief Gold + NewDark gameplay bugs that TFix addresses, that non-TFix players might encounter, but this is probably the most significant and noticeable.)
Another approach to addressing this problem is for skacky to include advice in the contest FM release post, for all players to patch with TFix 1.26a, even those who already have NewDark installed.
Thoughts?
DrK on 23/11/2018 at 20:52
Thanks a lot! I noticed weird behaviors from them, but thought it was due to thief gold itself, not newdark.
vfig on 23/11/2018 at 21:15
Quote Posted by DrK
Thanks a lot! I noticed weird behaviors from them, but thought it was due to thief gold itself, not newdark.
It doesn't seem to happen in my Thief Gold OldDark 1.37 install, but I don't know enough about the actual cause of the bug to rule it out completely.
voodoo47 on 23/11/2018 at 22:38
Quote Posted by vfig
it only gets applied for the OMs, not when running an FM
nope, gamesys.dml will apply it to everything. so unless you've installed ND manually, you are fine. and if you are doing that, the assumption is that you know what you are doing, which means you also manually applied all the essential fixes as well.
as mentioned earlier, people who want to do things on their own, will be left to do things on their own.
do note that glitching zombies out is fairly easy even with the fix.
vfig on 24/11/2018 at 00:52
Quote Posted by voodoo47
nope, gamesys.dml will apply it to everything. so unless you've installed ND manually, you are fine.
My report is from running the GOG ND 1.26 install, unmodified. It has the gamesys.dml with the patch, but across four different FMs (mine and three others that I was beta testing) the zombie problem occurred consistently. In each case, manually making the change to M-ZombiePossum fixed it consistently. Meanwhile, playing the same mission (before making the manual fix) with the Steam release of Thief Gold that had been patched with TFix 1.26a never had the zombie problem occur.
I notice that TFix has its gamesys.dml in an uber_mod_path directory, while the GOG install just has its gamesys.dml in the root. I don't know the ins and outs of NewDark's gamesys.dml loading (the docs aren't very clear to me on that point), or whether there's something else going on. But I am seeing a problem that consistently correlates between the two different releases of the game.
Update: To double-check whether the gamesys.dml-in-the-root actually is or is not being loaded when playing an FM, I added the following to is, to change torches to use the stacks of coins/purse models, so it's visually obvious when the .dml is being applied and when it is not:
Code:
// Mess up torch models
ObjProp -26 "CfgTweqModels"
{
"Model 0" "coinsgol"
"Model 1" "coinssil"
"Model 2" "coinscop"
"Model 3" "lotpouc2"
}
In the otherwise unmodified GOG version of Thief Gold:
1. Running the OMs, torches are appearing as coins/purse: the gamesys.dml is clearly being loaded
2. Running an FM*, torches still appear as torches: evidently the gamesys.dml is not being loaded
3. Adding an uber_mod_path to cam_mod.ini and putting the gamesys.dml into it, then running the FM, the torches appear as coins/purse: clearly gamesys.dml is being loaded
4. Alternatively, copying gamesys.dml into the FM's directory, then running the FM, the torches appear as coins/purse: clearly gamesys.dml is being loaded
(*The FM I used was created specifically for this test: just a bare room with a zombie and a bunch of torches. Nothing special about it.)
Maybe in case 2 the root gamesys.dml is supposed to be loaded, but my tests are clearly showing that it is not.
voodoo47 on 24/11/2018 at 10:25
there is an easier way, just add dbmod_log 10 to cam_ext.cfg and examine the dbmod.log that will be created once you run the level - it will tell you exactly what dmls are loaded from where.
will check the FM dml loading on the unmodified GOG build, but as already mentioned a couple of times, I still consider this unsupported as manual tweaks are necessary if you want to run FMs without any community patcher.
//tried LaFrenier on a clean GOG build with FMSel, gamesys.dml is getting loaded. looks like you have something else going on (don't tell me you are using darkloader).
vfig on 24/11/2018 at 21:51
Quote Posted by voodoo47
there is an easier way, just add
dbmod_log 10 to cam_ext.cfg and examine the dbmod.log that will be created once you run the level - it will tell you exactly what dmls are loaded from where.
Oh, excellent!
Quote:
will check the FM dml loading on the unmodified GOG build, but as already mentioned a couple of times, I still consider this unsupported as manual tweaks are necessary if you want to run FMs without any community patcher.
All the more reason for FM authors to incorporate the fix into their missions :cheeky: — the FM loader's built in to NewDark, so players shouldn't be required to install anything else. That's the position I'm taking with my FM, at any rate.
Quote:
//tried LaFrenier on a clean GOG build with FMSel, gamesys.dml is getting loaded. looks like you have something else going on (don't tell me you are using darkloader).
Nope, this is on a fresh, completely clean install of Thief Gold from GOG (1.26 ND, naturally). And it's not just me—I was first alerted to this problem by one of my testers who also used the GOG install.
So, dbmod.log on this fresh install: (
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1-YWhVyxJirqyrJJkWwZ6-cKmoAo7A4_U) (full log file)
Code:
DIAG: cwd is 'e:\GOG\Thief Gold'
DIAG: enumerating patches for 'gamesys' (40200)
DIAG: looking for file 'gamesys.dml' in path '.\' (40200)
INFO: found file 'gamesys.dml' in path '.\', loading... (40200)
INFO: patch queued
DIAG: searching FM/mod paths for patches...
DIAG: looking for file 'gamesys.dml' in path 'patches\' (40200)
DIAG: file not found
DIAG: ------ patch enum request finished ------
And dbmod.log when running with -fm and selecting the "foo" FM: (
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mENfrp4H4D4yMnP8ygfIRUNbU1ybfzVf) (full log file)
Code:
DIAG: cwd is 'e:\GOG\Thief Gold'
DIAG: enumerating patches for 'gamesys' (40200)
DIAG: looking for file 'gamesys.dml' in path 'FMs\foo\' (40200)
DIAG: file not found
DIAG: searching FM/mod paths for patches...
DIAG: looking for file 'gamesys.dml' in path 'patches\' (40200)
DIAG: file not found
DIAG: ------ patch enum request finished ------
It's simply not looking in the root anymore, so doesn't find the dml.
(I also saved the logs from the other two cases when I set an uber_mod_path or put the gamesys in the FM dir itself, but they work just as expected, so haven't bothered to upload them.)
voodoo47 on 24/11/2018 at 22:26
the answer is, this happens only if the FM has its own custom gamesys. interesting (LaFrenier does not, so it loaded ok).
the quick fix is to move the gamesys.dml to the patches folder - I will investigate this further, and possibly update the GOG build. still not a fan of using the plain GOG build for running FMs, just for the record.
any FM author is free to incorporate any dml fixes into their mission, of course - preferably by editing the gamesys, so no dmls bundles with the mission, if possible (will prevent future problems).
vfig on 25/11/2018 at 02:36
Quote Posted by voodoo47
the answer is, this happens only if the FM has its own custom gamesys. interesting (LaFrenier does not, so it loaded ok).
Ah, that is odd. My contest mission and my test mission indeed both have custom gamesys.
Quote:
the quick fix is to move the gamesys.dml to the patches folder - I will investigate this further, and possibly update the GOG build. still not a fan of using the plain GOG build for running FMs, just for the record.
any FM author is free to incorporate any dml fixes into their mission, of course - preferably by editing the gamesys, so no dmls bundles with the mission, if possible (will prevent future problems).
Great. Thanks for looking into this!
