demagogue on 23/11/2012 at 05:51
On that line (I'm not so interested in the race angle as the online chat angle here), one thing that's become sort of important to me on online chatting is not changing something I've said in the past with later edits. I actually edit quite a bit, but almost always to add stuff so I don't double post, not to take away once I've committed to it. And I'll usually even say what I'm editing (even when it'd be better to just rewrite a smaller post so it's not tl;dr).
But I do that because I feel like, when people say something online, they should either have a backbone & stand by it, or they should at least stand by that they said something wrong or stupid, and the stupidity stands as an acknowledgement, it's there in black & white, yes I'm human & said this incredibly stupid thing. I've learned from it. But I'm not going to white wash it because that's almost a coward thing to do, whitewashing your own past. I don't know if that's exactly where fett is going with his point, but it reminds me of that. Part of being in an online community is standing by what you've said for better or worse & having some backbone.
But maybe the larger point in that is, you don't judge someone's character by a single post anyway. The whole point of keeping what you say, the good & the stupid, is that then you have this whole collective mass, and our personality & values & humor and all that, of our online personality anyway, come out of the whole. So when somebody does say something incredibly stupid, we'll know, well he tried but must be having an off day because that was shit compared to what we know he's capable of. Or when some known troll says something actually of value, we'll all know, throwing that little bone to us is in no way going to make up for all the shit & grief you've given us. Take you and your good point & still fuck off anyway.
Which brings me to my punchline, which is I think what I really don't like about what this site is doing -- not only that but the trend of Web 2.0 generally; this is happening everywhere -- is the loss of online community & giving a full body to our online personalities, and the rise of these sound-bite atoms that don't really mean jack taken in isolation for the zing of the moment. Nobody really knows these people where these sound bites are coming from, whether they're just having a bad day, or it's a legit zing if you saw it in context, or they're just honestly evil to the core. Tumblr and Reddit and FB and Twitter and 4Chan and 9gag and cellphone are, ok they perform a service, but they're all fucking up what Internet can do socially and leaving us not as people but atomic memes and soundbites bouncing around indefinitely and sticking to nothing but to incite the next in line, like burning flash paper when you want a slow smoldering burn giving shape to an actual character.
Vasquez on 23/11/2012 at 06:20
Quote Posted by demagogue
But maybe the larger point in that is, you don't judge someone's character by a single post anyway.
When you're out for the witch-hunt, yes you do. Online or IRL, same thing, can't expect internet people to be more evolved. If something someone says is bad enough in your opinion, you don't
care what other nuances that person has. The same stuff wars are made of, only in smaller scale.
demagogue on 23/11/2012 at 06:44
I guess I'm thinking about it from the other side of the coin. Web 2.0 sites don't even allow people to get to know each other's personalities, whether they want to or not, and the old fashioned forums make people have to get to know each other if they post or lurk long enough whether they want to or not.
People themselves I think just take the path of least resistance on whatever road that's open to them... So this is something sites can play a hand in I think. Wars are made when people aren't talking to each other on a regular basis and they can't even imagine what's in the other guy's head. But if, e.g., they're watching the other's television every day, they can't help but get to know how they think about the world just by pure osmosis.
Vasquez on 23/11/2012 at 06:58
You can't change people by changing sites. Some choose to learn to know others, some rather form their personal opinion of others and stick to that, true or false.
SubJeff on 23/11/2012 at 07:47
Sites like reddit are set up in such a way that it is much, much harder to get to know the personalities of others.
It's almost exactly like dems says-it's all so atomic.
Vasquez on 23/11/2012 at 08:02
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Sites like reddit are set up in such a way that it is much, much harder to get to know the personalities of others.
Yes, but I meant it's up to the person to choose whether they use sites like reddit or not. If you really want to know people, you find some other place, right?
Kolya on 23/11/2012 at 09:47
Techno-determinism vs. the user centric approach. Websites shape communication with the channels they provide. And while users are free to engage via other means, what if they just don't? Whether it's being made too inconvenient by the site, or they're too lazy or incompetent doesn't really matter then.
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
The crazy thing is you can't even use the word nigger without potentially being accused of being racist.
I sympathize with the anti-PC sentiment here, but actually you can't say a lot of words in a lot of situations. And usually no one cares about your intended contextual meaning, because if that could provide legitimacy, then the social taboo would be quickly undermined by myriads of more or less sensible justifications. So while it's a knee-jerk reaction, it's the only efficient way to handle social taboos on words.
SubJeff on 23/11/2012 at 11:02
What utter crap.
Most language can be used in an offensive way, but it's exactly HOW you use language that makes it offensive our not.
Brain, your, useless, shriveled, inadequate, opinion, stink and Japanese are all words. Just words. But you can easily use those words to concoct a racist insult.
Can you think of any other words that you have to replace in order to describe something to adults apart from nigger? Cunt perhaps, depending on the delicacy of your company, but really that's about it. Even then it's just gauche and unlikely to brand you.
Political correctness is an arse.
june gloom on 23/11/2012 at 11:59
Wow.
