Publishers are eying Thief again... - by shadowthief
Beleg Cúthalion on 26/2/2008 at 14:35
Are there any screenshots from Oblivion or another Bethesda game that do not look so...well..cute like Oblivion does? Something that could raise my interest?
Dia on 26/2/2008 at 18:19
Quote Posted by muncadunc
After the debacle that was TDS, i'm down with a Thief from Bethesda,
I'll agree with you up to that point. I just started playing Morrowind III (got tired of waiting for a new TFM) and have to say I'm hopelessly addicted. The graphics, architecture, and textures are beyond belief! I'm looking forward to playing Oblivion when I'm done doing all I can do with MWIII. To see Thief rendered with such elegance and attention to detail is something that makes my heart speed up. The gameplay in MWIII isn't all that different from Thief (TDS excluded); except that there aren't any rope arrows (you can use a spell or potion to levitate or jump), you have better control of your weapon (face it; Garrett's swordplay is clutzy at best) although you don't get the 'zoom' feature when using your bow, your character can swim for a decent distance underwater ( :p > TDS), and you can steal to your heart's content (as long as you're either willing to fight or wait til nobody's around to lift some loot).
The longest load time I've experienced so far is right at the beginning; waiting for the main menu screen to come up so you can load your last save. Travelling from an interior to an exterior takes a heartbeat as does loading the new terrain when you cross over into another sector of the map.
Yep; I do believe Bethesda has the ability to do a seriously righteous Thief.
Quote:
regardless of whether storyline is maintained or whatever.
And there's where I have to disagree. Imho it just wouldn't be Thief if the latest in the series went off on a tangent that had nothing to do with Garrett/the Keepers/Mechanists/Hammerites, etc. The thought that Bethesda or someone else might produce a Thief FPS makes my tummy hurt.
:(
jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 18:29
Thief is a magical amalgam of eclectic ideas. An alchemy that, if the recipe is changed too much--one critical ingredient here, or a few lesser ingredients there--it can no longer be called "Thief". It becomes a spin-off, an "Inspired by...", but not a substitute for the real thing.
Zillameth on 26/2/2008 at 18:59
Maybe the series shouldn't be continued, then. Although I must admit I really, really miss some kind of "Dark Project mood & story plus Metal Age gameplay & level design plus modern engine & tools minus all the glitches" thing.
jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 19:13
I think it's possible to make a new Thief--technology-wise. I just don't think we'll ever truly see a game made by a company that doesn't compromise what makes Thief, since a company has to make games for money. That fact is THE problem. The original games were loveable Frankenstein monsters, spliced and grafted together. The fan community could do it, but it would take cohesiveness of a team, a vision, and done in a way that allows members of the team to leave and others to come in without killing the project. The wish is there, but so is the money game, and real life considerations.
A game by Bethesda would have to be called Thieves. You choose your gender, your appearance, your skill-base, etc. You'd get the gameplay, but no Garrett.
R Soul on 26/2/2008 at 19:34
There's plenty of scope for some decent Thiefy story/gameplay.
After T3, there are now loads of former Keepers who now have to live among everyone else. Unless we know for certain that the glyphs were key to their sneaking ability, it'd be easy to come up with a story that revolved around the former Keepers. They're going to have to make a living, but there are several ways a trained sneak could go about that.
There will still be crime, and former Keepers would be very good at improving mansion security.
Others might become more political. I'm sure the Baron would like to know of anyone who's against him and would pay good money for that sort of information, and maybe the nobility in general would too.
Others might take a Robin Hood attitude and steal from the rich and give to the poor.
Then some might do what Garrett chose to do at the beginning of T1: Steal from the rich and flog it for some water arrows and a couple of flashbombs.
It'd be nice if the player could have a choice between the final two. Giving to the poor could mean they don't tell the guards if they see you, and there are a few more unlocked doors leading to more hiding places to use to avoid guards, but you have less to spend on items. Being selfish means you can get more items, but you'll have fewer escape routes since the commoners are more wary of you.
I know it's all speculation, and I don't think there will be a Thief 4, but there will be fan missions and the Dark Mod's coming along nicely.
Zillameth on 26/2/2008 at 19:39
Quote Posted by jtr7
I think it's possible to make a new Thief--technology-wise. I just don't think we'll ever truly see a game made by a company that doesn't compromise what makes Thief, since a company has to make games for money. That fact is THE problem. The original games were loveable Frankenstein monsters, spliced and grafted together. The fan community could do it, but it would take cohesiveness of a team, a vision, and done in a way that allows members of the team to leave and others to come in without killing the project. The wish is there, but so is the money game, and real life considerations.
A game by Bethesda would have to be called Thieves. You choose your gender, your appearance, your skill-base, etc. You'd get the gameplay, but no Garrett.
This seems true. Personally, I wouldn't like Bethesda to do Thief 4. In fact, I don't think it should be made by any of the big and famous. Big studios cannot afford a failure, because it costs them money and reputation, whereas small studios just lose money.
Frankly, the times are such that you can choose to make either a great game or great money. While you can accidentally achieve one while trying to do the other, these two goals are essentially mutually exclusive. Hence it would take much courage to develop Thief 4 at all. So much, in fact, that I think keeping true to the original shouldn't pose a problem. When the very goal you set is suicidal, you can stop caring about the impact of details. ;)
Which, I believe, is the only "proper" way to go. If your goal is to achieve a minor success, you will always achieve a minor success (unless you don't know your trade or your publisher is a bunch of idiots, in which case you get an epic fail). A major success is only possible (though not guaranteed) if you're ready for a major failure.
jtr7 on 26/2/2008 at 20:09
I'm really looking forward to seeing the final result of the Dark Mod team's efforts. It looks to be the best example of a Thief-like game that isn't Thief, but gets as close as we can realistically expect.
And I agree, R Soul, that there's a lot of directions Thief-like games could go with the storyline, ESPECIALLY if Garrett is left to himself at last, as he has always wanted. I can't seem him being a father-figure to the little girl. But yes, the Keepers are still alive. The pages are blank, the Compound(s) are exposed for all to see, and explore, and question, and...loot:
final_cutscene.sch:
"If I never see another glyph again, it'll be too soon."
"Back! Back with you!"
"...old, so old, all ruined..."
"...Hey! Did you see that? Never noticed it before, how could a building just..."
"...built by goblins at the very stroke of midnight..."
"...does that look like gold to you, there?"
"Hurry, before someone else..."
"...someone at the window! They've all... gone. What will we do? What will become of The City without us?"
"The Builder hath returned his Chalice to us!"
"Them Jacknall's Paw! It bes comesy back to us!"
"Let go of me!"
"That's not for you."
"Please, sir, I'm hungry..."
"You have talent. It is no easy thing to... see a Keeper. Especially one who does not wish to be seen."
Not to mention the impact this will have once word spreads, and the factions behold it all, too. Add to this the fallen Clock Tower, The Hag and the Statues' rampage, the warring factions.
Beleg Cúthalion on 26/2/2008 at 20:18
Quote Posted by AerisNoir
(Don't mind the skeleton in front of you, the light at the background..)
[...]
Google?I figure we should not look at the initial style of the game, but at what is possible... Thief has quite a few different styles than Oblivion from concept, but... the engine can do it :)
I used Google myself, don't worry, but I found nothing that made me imagine how the angular, dirty Thief world could look good with these graphics/this engine/whatever. By the way, also Dark Messiah looked ...well cute doesn't include all what I mean... in its medieval areas. Although there are people who think TDS looked somehow comic-like (probably the bump maps, but I didn't look for any tangible statements) it seems still more rough to me than a lot of other games – and I think Thief 1/2 were only more coarse because of their simpler graphics.
