Publishers are eying Thief again... - by shadowthief
Judith on 2/3/2008 at 19:13
Quote:
I've met a guy, who is a relatively well known game developer in my country, has a lot of experience. And he's thinking like this: why do so many people insist on liking Deus Ex, or Thief, or Fallout! These are bad games! They didn't sell!
That's somewhat contradictory. Then why making another sequel or prequel? Psychonauts and Beyond good and evil didn't sell too, and it's not likely that we'll see a sequel, why bother reviving Thief, Fallout or Deus Ex? It makes sense only in one case: devs are out of ideas, trying to "refresh" an old franchise, "reinvent" it, giving us beautiful visual & sound effects, but simplified gameplay, making the game more accesible for the "lowest common denominator", as you said.
Btw. I think that PR is the most useless and overrated occupation these days ;)
ToolFan2007 on 2/3/2008 at 23:24
Quote Posted by incal
It seems like none of the newer games i could play or see were as complex as the older games i like (Thief , System shock , Morrowind, Fallout and so on) , which is sad.
S.T.A.L.K.E.R says hello.
piano-sam on 3/3/2008 at 07:32
I'd argue the best games, typically, are the ones that don't sell as good, and by best, I mean the most dynamic, groundbreaking, paradigm shifting, whatever.
Not long ago, I saw a triple pack, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Splinter Cell, and Beyond Good and Evil for ~10USD. I bought the pack for BGE. When it came out, I hadn't the system that could run it well, or the money to buy it. I was delighted when I saw I had another chance at getting it.
The Magpie on 3/3/2008 at 11:23
Quote Posted by piano-sam
I'd argue the best games, typically, are the ones that don't sell as good, and by best, I mean the most dynamic, groundbreaking, paradigm shifting, whatever.
Not long ago, I saw a triple pack, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, Splinter Cell, and Beyond Good and Evil for ~10USD. I bought the pack for BGE. When it came out, I hadn't the system that could run it well, or the money to buy it. I was delighted when I saw I had another chance at getting it.
All of the above were PS2 titles first and foremost, right? You got the PC ports, or...?
And I'd say, actually, that Thief:TDP and Thief Gold were good sellers. Thief:TMA hadn't been out long enough for it to break even when LGS closed, but I'm absolutely certain that it did not long afterwards. I'm not sure your point holds up. That goes for what the guy Zillameth referred to was saying, as well.
Also, I'll contend that Prince of Persia:Sands of Time was a game which, while not necessarily dynamic or even groundbreaking to any great degree, did push the envelope. It was a very well designed game, IMO.
--
L.
Zillameth on 3/3/2008 at 17:38
Quote Posted by The Magpie
All of the above were PS2 titles first and foremost, right? You got the PC ports, or...?
From what I've heard, back at the time Ubisoft made true multiplatform games. They had been designed with all target platforms in mind from the beginning. I don't really know about Prince of Persia, but the other two don't feel like ports at all. Beyond Good & Evil is simply wonderful on PC, and I also believe it's equally wonderful regardless of what you play it on. It's a pity that it doesn't work under 64-bit systems.
Quote Posted by The Magpie
And I'd say, actually, that Thief:TDP and Thief Gold were good sellers. Thief:TMA hadn't been out long enough for it to break even when LGS closed, but I'm absolutely certain that it did not long afterwards. I'm not sure your point holds up. That goes for what the guy Zillameth referred to was saying, as well.
While I don't have access to any kind of exact figures, I think there is enough indirect data to support the notion that first two Thieves sold with profit. And I think the degree of their lasting popularity speaks for itself. Even if those games didn't bring a profit, they have a huge potential.
The problem with discussions like this is that nobody really knows those figures. So if you're bold enough, you can claim one game or another "didn't sell" and nobody will have the courage to contradict you.
Besides, whether or not a game is a good seller is not as interesting a question as why it is (or isn't) so. It's easy to say "this game sold few copies because people don't like games like this". So much easier than to say "this game sold few copies because we messed up".
jtr7 on 3/3/2008 at 17:47
In this case, it's all relative. You cannot really compare LGS games with mainstream games. I might have to dig up the devs quotes where they say Thief sold well. They didn't know how Thief would be received at all, they knew they were taking multiple risks, but they were happy with the sales, and they did make a profit. It helps they didn't have hundreds of employees to pay, and all the resources for those employees. It's like a great independent film versus a Hollywood blockbuster.
incal on 3/3/2008 at 20:17
Quote Posted by ToolFan2007
S.T.A.L.K.E.R says hello.
Stalker came close , but , to me , it quickly became apparent that it was dumbed down a lot ; in fact i'd say Stalker is a mere shadow of what it's creators intended to do...
jtr7 , i remember reading an article , a while ago , that explained in details and with proofs that LGS did make a profit with Thief , and thus was not brought down by Thief selling badly ; if i happen to stumble upon it again i'll give the link.
Quote Posted by Zillameth
So PC developers are free to make any kind of game they want to; it just needs to bring enough profit so they can make another one. Give them enough sales, and they will make as complex a game as you want.
But that's something most people don't really care about.
As far as i know most , if not all , of the games we tend to like sold quite well .
Why then are we seeing regressions where there should be progress ?
Probably because some people are thinking "that game will bring more profit if it is simpler "
so they think they are "loosing" money if the game did not make as much money as they think it could have if it has been more "family friendly" ; even if it was a success !
piano-sam on 3/3/2008 at 20:52
Quote Posted by The Magpie
All of the above were PS2 titles first and foremost, right? You got the PC ports, or...?
And I'd say, actually, that Thief:TDP and Thief Gold were good sellers. Thief:TMA hadn't been out long enough for it to break even when LGS closed, but I'm absolutely certain that it did not long afterwards. I'm not sure your point holds up. That goes for what the guy Zillameth referred to was saying, as well.
Also, I'll contend that Prince of Persia:Sands of Time was a game which, while not necessarily dynamic or even groundbreaking to any great degree, did push the envelope. It was a very well designed game, IMO.
--
L.
PoP and Splinter Cell I know were console ports. I'm not sure which, given the time period I'd imagine PS2 is probably reasonable. I'm fairly certain however, that BGE was PC only. I don't
really know though. The set I got though, was for the PC though, yeah (ports or otherwise). Splinter Cell actually plays pretty well on the PC, (as most shooter type games do unless the porters are gibbons) and is pretty fun actually. Compellingly stealthy if you chose, though I chose to use the 50 bullets you get for each mission for =<50 headshots. :ebil:
I was about to say I disagreed that PoP pushed the envelope, but now that I really consider it, the combat system was rather unique. The rest - was just a platformer with some gimmicks, imo. It has spawned a set of clones though, the most recent of which, and arguably most well-done, is Assassin's Creed. So the fact that clones have spawned is indicative of something, i think.
When I said didn't sell well earlier, I suppose I meant didn't sell well fast. Thats kind of my benchmark of fiscal success in the industry.
incal on 4/3/2008 at 20:51
If greed is forever in the way , i have to conclude we're better off doing our own games ; whether or not publishers are eying thief again...
I'll teach myself , even if it'll be a very long time before i get anywhere near the level of skill of the heroes working on the dark project.
