Sulphur on 19/11/2010 at 16:08
I'm not too sure what this discussion is about any more. I get dema's reason for how the Beth exclusivity decision is ironic, but is it just me or are some of Eld's responses a bit non sequiturish?
Eldron on 19/11/2010 at 16:56
I guess it's easier to say "its bethesda, id would never do this kind of thing!"
Except it was zenimax that bought id.
I guess I just need to end it with: it just wouldn't be profitable for id to try to break in and market their engine again.
edit: actually yes, what am I even talking about any more.
Sulphur on 19/11/2010 at 20:44
Yeah, Zenimax might have bought them out, but 'Bethesda Softworks' is their publishing arm and will be publishing Rage.
And while it does sound cynical, it is in fact quite easy to say that the zero-licensing issue is BethSoft's fault, because just about every report and even interviews with id categorically state that Beth wants exclusive publishing rights for anybody using id Tech 5.
I'm not denying that what you're saying has a 50-50 chance of being true, but all the reports state otherwise.
Eldron on 19/11/2010 at 22:17
I wonder how they'll handle open-sourcing it then when they in the far future move on to idtech6.
demagogue on 20/11/2010 at 02:06
I was worried about that too. But for that matter, I wonder how it will affect id6. I guess it's already far enough along it'll get pushed through. But if id is getting out of the engine business then there might not be the same push on future next gen engines. I mean they may still be getting built, but not with the same push if it's just for in-house. I don't know though.
Jason Moyer on 20/11/2010 at 05:07
I suspect John Carmack will develop 3-d engines until his dying breath.
Re: mod-ability, I'm not sure why Bethesda publishing Id games would affect that, given that their in-house developed games ship with incredible development tools. If TES V uses idtech I'd imagine a construction kit is almost a given.
demagogue on 20/11/2010 at 05:29
I guess from the stuff I've been doing for TDM, when I think moddability, I'm thinking total conversion-ability. Can you do a total conversion, and if you can, then what's actually held back from making an entirely new game on the engine that makes it so "exclusive"? Or does it just mean: yes you can make an entirely new game with the mod tools, we just won't license you to sell it commercially. So it's only a legal thing? My original thinking was it meant, even if you got mod tools, maybe it's just to maybe make new maps but you won't really be able to change gameplay or do a respectable TC.
Eldron on 20/11/2010 at 17:24
Quote Posted by demagogue
I guess from the stuff I've been doing for TDM, when I think moddability, I'm thinking total conversion-ability. Can you do a total conversion, and if you can, then what's actually held back from making an entirely new game on the engine that makes it so "exclusive"? Or does it just mean: yes you can make an entirely new game with the mod tools, we just won't license you to sell it commercially. So it's only a legal thing? My original thinking was it meant, even if you got mod tools, maybe it's just to maybe make new maps but you won't really be able to change gameplay or do a respectable TC.
Actually, using idtech5 for a new elderscrolls could hurt modding for it quite a bit, since id has never done engines with the plugin style architecture, and idtech5 uses megatexturing which means big streamed files.
the engine would be perfect for TES5, but it would be horrifying for elderscrolls style modding.
If they did ship the SDK for a tes5, I would imagine it would be way more flexible than it ever was though, but it would essentially be one mod at a time, and gigantic downloads for environments.
Quote Posted by demagogue
So it's only a legal thing? My original thinking was it meant, even if you got mod tools, maybe it's just to maybe make new maps but you won't really be able to change gameplay or do a respectable TC.
Usually licensers get the entire sourcecode too, not just the sdk, and they get full support for it too (which is what id can't do anymore)
Shadowcat on 21/11/2010 at 11:16
I'm only going from memory, but I seem to recall reading that "support" from Id for their engines historically meant you got Carmack for a day, but not much else beyond that.
Eldron on 21/11/2010 at 13:14
Quote Posted by Shadowcat
I'm only going from memory, but I seem to recall reading that "support" from Id for their engines historically meant you got Carmack for a day, but not much else beyond that.
hah, that's crazy, but I guess it was some time ago.
