Randy Smith interview posted at EvilAvatar... - by Jandar
Holywhippet on 7/7/2006 at 12:05
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Oh, genius! By that logic, ladders are better than both of them. Oh wait, players might fall off the ladder and hurt themselves! Better that the entire game takes place on a two-dimensional plane made of Nerf so nobody gets hurt.
Um, ladders actually kind of sucked in the thief games. Mostly because you sometimes had to jump just to let go. In "Life of the Party" this was a worry because if you climbed down to the bottom of the Mechanist building via the ladder you'd be jumping off onto metal.
I'm somewhat of the school of thought that a game should not put you in a position where it is absolutely impossible to win. The rope arrows break that rule because it is possible to run out of them through bad aim. It is kind of rare to do that I admit. The better example is when you can't easily climb up a rope arrow because it has deployed too close to a wall - its even more of a problem when its stuck into the edge of a ledge and you need to use the jump button to mantle the rest of the way up. Sometimes you hit the jump button and simply plunge to your doom instead.
From a gameplay point of view though, I suppose the rope arrows are more fun. They can be used to reward people who are observant and keep an eye out for areas they can climb up to.
Vigil on 8/7/2006 at 10:38
I'd say that Thief's ladders are the best in any game of the time, largely because you must jump to detach - and cannot fall to your death by accidentally sliding too far to either side or getting onto them "the wrong way", like you can in the likes of Deus Ex and Half Life (and also because you don't ascend and descend them at 50 miles an hour like in HL and HL2). Occasions like the metal plates at the bottom of ladders in Life of the Party and Songs of the Caverns should have been avoided by the level designer, not by changing the ladder behaviour.
More modern games like Deadly Shadows, Prince of Persia and Riddick made ladders a much safer and nicer gameplay experience by taking them outside the game's normal movement; they made getting on and off a ladder explicit gameplay acts triggered by touching the ladder or reaching the top and bottom, and climbing cannot result in an unintentional dismount. The whole experience was more reliable, especially the previously-very-touch-and-go act of mounting a ladder from a ledge at the very top. In comparison, HL2's ladder behaviour felt like an awful step backwards.
ZylonBane on 8/7/2006 at 14:09
Quote Posted by Vigil
More modern games like Deadly Shadows, Prince of Persia and Riddick made ladders a much safer and nicer gameplay experience
And much less interesting. I haven't tried PoP or Riddick yet, but TDS ladder-climbing is a stifling, hand-holding affair.
Tony on 8/7/2006 at 17:08
Zylonbane, please! Try to be a little more understanding. How would you feel if you were a retard?
Vigil on 8/7/2006 at 21:03
Yeah, that's right, because ladders you can't inadvertently kill yourself with by getting on or off them the wrong way are for retards.
Gestalt on 8/7/2006 at 21:57
Back in my day ladders killed you on contact, and you had to walk seven miles uphill just to get to them.
ZylonBane on 8/7/2006 at 22:08
Quote Posted by Vigil
Yeah, that's right, because ladders you can't inadvertently kill yourself with by getting on or off them the wrong way are for retards.
It's kind of like real life that way.
demagogue on 8/7/2006 at 22:11
Quote Posted by Gestalt
Back in my day ladders killed you on contact, and you had to walk seven miles uphill just to get to them.
... in the snow.
Vigil on 8/7/2006 at 23:05
AND you paid for the privilege.
Holywhippet on 10/7/2006 at 01:14
The ladders in Thief would have been just fine if LGS included a single button - the let go of the ladder button. Instead you had to basically try to escape from the damn things which was not a good idea.
