Digital Nightfall on 29/4/2011 at 07:56
Here's a great little editorial from Edge magazine where Randy explains the problem of achievements in player-expression games like Thief.
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(When I say "us" of course I mean Thief players like us, not TTLG specifically.)
SlyFoxx on 29/4/2011 at 14:36
Ah yes, the 'ol incriminate the guards trick. I think we've all done it at one point or another.:ebil:
demagogue on 29/4/2011 at 15:40
We had this same discussion when we talked about the possibility of achievements in Thi4f. And we came to pretty much the same conclusion he did... You don't need a popup for the player to come up with their own meta goals like collecting bodies or junk items or crate stacking or ghosting or a million other things, and if anything it's counterproductive.
The way he described it made me think of another thing bad about it. What if the popup thought about your achievement as something completely different than what you were going for? You could have just wanted to collect the bodies because it's entertaining and not even thinking about it in terms of Lord Bafford coming home anymore, considering this is going on your 11th year of playing this level. So if a popup achievement starts talking about that, it's just weird and alien. Not only does it take it away from being "yours" anymore, but it turns it into its own thing that you may not care about to boot.
Goldmoon Dawn on 29/4/2011 at 17:02
The genius of the original Thief title was in its minimalist design. Cant we just have that again?
Xorak on 29/4/2011 at 20:15
I think having achievements for that kind of stuff just turns imagination into obsessive/compulsive behavior. Rather than doing something outside-the-box just for fun, that same behavior becomes a mechanical, obsessive need to unlock every achievement and doesn't really mean anything to the player in the end, because it is more like work than a game. And there's already loot-collecting to appeal to the obsession-side of the player.
Dasubervixen on 29/4/2011 at 21:49
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
The genius of the original Thief title was in its minimalist design.
That is so true.
Trying to do things in games that maybe the designers hadn't thought of. Has always been fun for me. But, I've never felt the need for games to acknowledge it when I've done something "outside of the box".
Quote Posted by Xorak
I think having achievements for that kind of stuff just turns imagination into obsessive/compulsive behavior.
I also agree with this statement.
Scott Weiland on 30/4/2011 at 09:37
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
The genius of the original Thief title was in its minimalist design. Cant we just have that again?
It wasn't a genius -
all the older 3d games had minimalist design. It wasn't the choice of developers but the restriction of pc hardware of that time. But minimalist design is appealing to many and that's why older games are still played by many, not only because of nostalgia.
Goldmoon Dawn on 30/4/2011 at 11:54
Since you obviously know nothing of the history behind Thiefs influences I shall tell you again. Thief was the answer to the crpgs of the 80's and early 90's, which I assure you were far from minimalist.
nicked on 30/4/2011 at 13:03
That doesn't even make sense. Frankly, Thief is a lot more complex than say Quake or Half-Life, or any similar FP games from the time.
Scott Weiland on 30/4/2011 at 13:15
Quote Posted by Goldmoon Dawn
Since you obviously know nothing of the history behind Thiefs influences I shall tell you again. Thief was the answer to the crpgs of the 80's and early 90's, which I assure you were far from minimalist.
I said
3d games, can't you read?
