Rug Burn Junky on 8/10/2011 at 16:14
Quote Posted by CCCToad
Whether its corporate-friendly legislation, tax cuts for the rich, or civil liberties, the Democratic party has fallen into the trap of supporting a neocon agenda due to blind partisan loyalty.
It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this, this is still nonsense.
Yes, we know that Democrats acquiesce to the
corporepublican rich corporate agenda, and subsets of the democratic party even support aspects of it. But you're making a leap to a level of corruption that simply doesn't exist. You do so by going steps way beyond the actual acts (which you don't even grasp and misconstrue in the first place), and supporting your positions by drawing conclusions about what is in their minds and hearts (which you have no way of knowing) and what is driving them, based on ad hominem insinuations and wild leaps of logic.
But it's good to know that when it comes to politics, you're just as much of a confused simpleton as when it comes to finance or economics*: prone to (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136405&p=2082345&highlight=conspiracy#post2082345) conspiracy theories, manichean misunderstanding, and parroting the paranoid ramblings of whatever pundit you currently have a hard-on for. Unfortunately, you're still falling into the (
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/20/the-anosognosics-dilemma-1/) Anosognosic's Dilemma - too stupid to grasp how stupid you are.
We get it. You're now a one trick pony, concern-trolling "democrats" about how their politicians are actually conservatives in disguise. Unfortunately, there
aren't any blindly partisan democrats here, so you can go now, your work is done.
*in fact, your misunderstanding of the financial system is what enables you to jump to your incorrect conclusions.
Tocky on 8/10/2011 at 16:27
Quote Posted by dethtoll
God you don't fucking get it
Nobody is jumping to conclusions here. You accuse us of not reading what you had to say. I did read what you had to say.
And I don't give a fuck, because my eyeballs started rolling as soon as you started sounding like Joe Tinfoil keeping the brain agents from reading his dreams.
So why would anyone take your posts seriously if all you can muster is incoherent, inchoate rage?
No you don't get it. I understood what you meant about language. I also understood you quit understanding when you can call what I said incoherent. I also understand your use of Joe tinfoil hat is doing what you accuse me of. First you don't get that I get it and find it only marginally important here and then you do it. Top that off with Vernon not getting that I get it and sucking your dick with his old man pic. Now does everybody get everybody? I quit using buzzwords and capitals for emphasis already.
I'm not making a speech before the united nations. Rest assured that if I were I would take into account pedantic assholes. I let off some steam with a few over the top words among what I thought were friends and find out they care more about winniing an argument about word usage than substance. Way more. To such an absurd degree that you still fail to adress what I said. You can still do so or you can conjure more bathrobe anologies which are doing what you accuse me of but to me personally.
CCC gets it. Of course he urges voting republican but he gets it.
Screw this futility. My nephew is here. We have a porch to decorate.
Rug Burn Junky on 8/10/2011 at 16:31
Quote Posted by Tocky
CCC gets it. Of course he urges voting republican but he gets it.
Careful there.Don't let your current exasperation with dethtoll make you say something you later regret. ;) (The fact that he ignores hyperbole to badly address the substance of your argument is a far cry from "getting it.")
CCCToad on 8/10/2011 at 17:09
Quote Posted by Tocky
No you don't get it. I understood what you meant about language. I also understood you quit understanding when you can call what I said incoherent.
Basically, grammar nazi-ism is something that nerd-types use as a red herring. Easier to just pick at that than, you know, have an actual conversation. That way they don't have to drop their false air of superiority.
Quote:
The tea party WILL NOT FAIL to vote republican.
Also, one thing about this. While they won't fail to vote republican, it is entirely possible that they won't vote at all. Both Perry and Romney are despised by the tea party and I don't see either engendering much support. Not that Perry will be lacking for support, the "religious right" will come out for him in droves because he's Bible thumping.
Ghostly Apparition on 8/10/2011 at 17:19
Quote Posted by Boxsmith
Every time I read any damn thing about that "we are the 99%" bullshit I cringe. I get you're worked up and this is important to you, but realize that between the CAPITALIZATION for EMPHASIS and silly slogans, it's very difficult to take you and your message seriously. Please do yourself a favour and stop talking like this.
While I agree made up words like corpororepublicans etc is hardly helpful your implication that a slogan
is silly I disagree with. Slogans and bumper sticker simple phrases has been working for the republican party for 30 years. We are the 99% is simple and easy to understand whose side you are on for the average person. Why do you think all the republicans refer to the rich wall street CEO's as job creators?
Its a simple concept the average person can understand, even though its blatantly wrong. Seriously if anyone can show me how wall street CEO are job creators I'd like to see it. What? A bunch of lawyers, and their secretaries? please.(no offense RBJ) But its a phrase they feel creates the desired effect, that omg we can't regulate them or increase their taxes because they are the job creators..which is a bunch of hogwash. But, dethtoll has a point also, the OWS movement needs a cohesive platform and set of demands and it cant be something written on a napkin with bits of lunch on it. If it isn't, trust me the mainstream media will disregard them as anything serious, which they have already. It is gaining momentum, I'm hopeful it can turn into something meaningful.
demagogue on 8/10/2011 at 18:33
For the record, CEOs that are lawyers are usually distrusted by shareholders and the board for not understanding business and promptly shown the door. CitiGroup, anyone...
As for who the job-creators are -- I mean, who except the company executives are the horse's mouth on decisions like that on the large scale? It's not a mystical event that occurs "out there" somewhere. The executive officers do act on incentives, which happens in their brains looking at the environment around them, but that happens in such predictable ways it's a wonder people keep being surprised. That puts some onus on gov't policy and regulators to watch the incentives they can control, but even then there's only so much gov't can do to be effective: interest rates can only be dropped so low; only so much extra money can be printed... I'm happy that more people are becoming politically conscious about the issues, but I feel they just need to keep it all situated in the real world.
june gloom on 8/10/2011 at 19:02
Quote Posted by Tocky
No you don't get it. I understood what you meant about language. I also understood you quit understanding when you can call what I said incoherent.
No, you still don't get it.
Quote:
I also understand your use of Joe tinfoil hat is doing what you accuse me of.
No, no it isn't, and the fact that you think it is just proves to me you don't understand what I'm trying to say at all.
Quote:
Top that off with Vernon not getting that I get it and sucking your dick with his old man pic.
lol are you seriously offended that I'm not the only one getting on your case? get over it
Quote:
I'm not making a speech before the united nations. Rest assured that if I were I would take into account pedantic assholes.
It's not pedantry, and your constant characterizing it as such tells me you just don't want to admit that you sound like a tool.
Quote:
I let off some steam with a few over the top words among what I thought were friends and find out they care more about winniing an argument about word usage than substance. Way more. To such an absurd degree that you still fail to adress what I said.
what you said. That's the WHOLE POINT. I'll let others address it, because
I don't give a good god damn. I was
trying to do you a solid by explaining that style is as important as substance, and you had to flip your fucking shit.
Quote:
CCC gets it. Of course he urges voting republican but he gets it.
hahahahahalsdpawergiasrhpyashyadhjadsgsf this conversation is over
Ghostly Apparition on 8/10/2011 at 19:05
That would be all well and good if dropping interest rates and printing more money is all they can do to
spur the economy. What creates jobs is demand, yes the CEO makes the decision but its demand that creates the impetus. Its not that the tax burden is too high, its the lowest effective tax rate on most companies in 50 years. In spite of all the hoopla about the U.S having the highest corporate tax rate, there are so many loopholes in the tax code many corporations pay no taxes. Which is a large part of the reason fro the OWS and U.S. uncut movements.
When an economy is in recession, or near depression, the citizens are rightfully scared so they hang on to money and pay down debts. Reducing demand for goods. which causes the economy to plunge deeper in a spiral effect. The only one who can reverse this is the Government, create jobs fixing infrastructure and other things the country needs to invest in. Yes it will increase the deficit in the short run, but more people working is more people paying taxes on their income and spending which helps the economy. It baffles me why then the republicans are for cutting spending except that by doing so they hurt the economy thereby increasing their chances in the next election. Austerity is not the answer, never has been in a situation such as this. supply side economics doesn't work. I actually agree with George H.W. Bush when he called it voodoo economics.
Also the whole meme of we can't legislate new regulations on wall street or increase the taxes on the rich because it might hurt jobs is ridiculous on its face. The Bush tax cuts have been in effect since 2003 and the major corporations are sitting on trillions of dollars and aren't creating any jobs. Where are the jobs the Bush tax cut was supposed to create?
Rug Burn Junky on 8/10/2011 at 19:43
Quote Posted by dethtoll
It's not pedantry, and your constant characterizing it as such tells me you just don't want to admit that you sound like a tool.
[...]
I don't care what you said. That's the WHOLE POINT. I'll let others address it, because
I don't give a good god damn. I was
trying to do you a solid by explaining that style is as important as substance, and you had to flip your fucking shit.
The problem, dethy, is that you're assuming an audience. The effective use of rhetoric is dependent upon whom one is addressing, and in context there's nothing wrong with hyperbole as long as its recognized as such, and not used as a substitute for actual meaning when the context/audience can no longer appreciate its limitations (such limitations being affected by the ideology one is espousing, especially since those who are attracted to various forms of liberalism are as a rule less susceptible to simplistic black/white reductions of complexity).
That gets into much a deeper discussion of semiotics and political rhetoric as propaganda, but to simply dismiss any use of hyperbole as fundamentally damaging the underlying argument is as counterproductive as relying exclusively upon it.
