Readables in Fan Missions – too long, Audiolog Syndrome

PinkDot on 15/12/2017 at 20:37

On the topic on why readables are such a popular choice for authors as a story driving devices - there's one more important reason: books are an inherent element of the Thief's world. From the words of wisdom from scriptures during the mission intro movies to Keeper's secret libraries filled with with rows and stacks of books on shelves and scribes desks. Books are in a way a fetish to many thief fans. If play this game then it's very likely you like the look and smell of the old, dusted libraries. And there's not that many games, where books have such importance and meaning.

pavlovscat on 15/12/2017 at 23:10

I love detailed, well written readables. I am disabled so I have a lot of time for them though I know that many don't have much leisure time. I do like when the *important* readables, the ones with clues & such, go into inventory, while readables created to enrich the storyline stay put. It is frustrating when I know the clue I needed was in a certain book, but I cannot remember which one. It's rare that I don't read all the way through every offering, but it sounds like I'm in the minority.

DarkThief Darek on 16/12/2017 at 02:51

Quote Posted by john9818a

It's not very time consuming to make a readable go into a player's inventory, and at the same time the player can drop readables after they're no longer needed.

I don't mean it's time consuming, just a little cumbersome in my eyes. For example, if I have a diary with 3 pages and only one little hint for optional loot I don't think it justifies going into the inventory. Especially if it's a book object (not the typical scroll or papyrus) - it seems a little odd to me, that Garrett would take the whole diary with him. But that's only my opinion.

Quote Posted by TannisRoot

I've thought about making a mission, but designing stealth gameplay in a 3D space is much more difficult than an adventure game style mission where guards are an after thought. (...)

Sorry, but I don't see your problem?
Here we talk about Thief and the editor Dromed. All you need to make a good stealth mission is already in the core engine of Dromed/Thief. You can achieve very much with the original assets and can concentrate fully on your mission design. I don't see why it's hard to create stealth gameplay, especially if you played Thief 1/Gold, 2.

@PinkDot: I agree. The books are a core element of Thief. Sometimes I have the feeling some player don't like to read at all and find excuses ... or maybe they are just tired after reading all those books with 10+ pages in FMs. I don't know.

@pavlovscat: It's funny. After reading all those opinions I also feel in the minority for reading all books in a FM. :D
But I can understand the frustration for some players.
We should all know we can't please everyone with the things we create.

downwinder on 16/12/2017 at 03:17

getting chased by 5 guards hold on while i read this 3 page note,before you atk me lol

we all been in this situation,you see note and wonder if anything on it is worthy to try to read it,so we save game ,and with no disregard run directly to note alerting all a.i. just to read note get info and reload :P

i also think how it pauses game while reading might be a bad thing,as sometimes clicking on something its nice to see text appear on screen while game still runs

depending on area of readable ofcourse ^

pavlovscat on 16/12/2017 at 05:31

Quote Posted by DarkThief Darek

@pavlovscat: It's funny. After reading all those opinion I also feel in the minority for reading all books in a FM. :D
But I can understand the frustration for some players.
We should all know we can't make it good for everyone to enjoy.

Indeed! :p
I am playing Keeper Investigations, and the Tanis Station mission is full of things to read. I am enjoying reading about the people, but it does add a lot of time to finishing the mission; however, I have lots of time. What better way to fill it? :cheeky:

Judith on 16/12/2017 at 10:00

Quote Posted by PinkDot

The thing is, OMs use this in moderation, as this is sort of medieval/steampunk world, and reading/writing is still quite expensive privilege. In FMs, basically every guard can read and write.

Quote:

There's no manual to go about designing a gameplay-first mission. You'd have to take consideration of garret's speed, the speed of patrols, their sensitivity, the tools to manipulate the solution space and how available they are.

That's not true. One of the presentations I mentioned is basically a stealth gameplay design 101. And, to test your gameplay design properly, you can use workflow like this one:

[video=youtube_share;WClXGuRQCjA]https://youtu.be/WClXGuRQCjA?t=11m49s[/video]

Jah on 19/12/2017 at 15:06

Quote Posted by Judith

The thing is, OMs use this in moderation, as this is sort of medieval/steampunk world, and reading/writing is still quite expensive privilege. In FMs, basically every guard can read and write.

Having just replayed both TG and TMA, I disagree about literacy being a privilege. The OMs are full of readables written by servants, guards, pagans and various other people you wouldn't expect to be literate in a medieval/steampunk type of world.

DarkThief Darek on 19/12/2017 at 15:48

Quote Posted by Jah

Good point. I never thought about writing to be a privilege in the Thief universe. I think we can't compare it to the actual medieval times or something like this. It's a fantasy world after all.
But I agree that communicating through letters should be far more prevalent than writing diaries.

bbb on 19/12/2017 at 17:54

I like that there a numerous ways to provide information to the player - cut scenes, conversations and readables, it is one of the things that immediately drew my interest in Thief. I always try to put at least 2 conversations in my missions because I love conversations when I am playing. Scrolls/books need to be used so as to not create distraction/irritation for the player. They can help tell the story and set the perspective, sometimes they add color and other times they just seem to make the mission more real. My only objection is something like a diary that goes on page after page with no useful information. I try to keep them short in my missions, but as mentioned some players really like reading and it adds to the game play.

There is generally no right/wrong answers when it comes to taste/preferences. I love basic missions with stock resources and just explore, blackjack, climb, lockpick and find lots of loot. Others like new and different things.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

BBB

ps; Hello Pavlovscat. The last time we communicated you were testing one of my missions a long time ago. I hope you are doing well!

pavlovscat on 20/12/2017 at 20:25

Quote Posted by bbb

ps; Hello Pavlovscat. The last time we communicated you were testing one of my missions a long time ago. I hope you are doing well!

Hey, BBB! Good to see you are still around. That would have been Augustine's Revenge, right? IIRC, Three Crowns was released earlier. Hmmmm...looks like I know what I'm playing today. :thumb: