demagogue on 18/5/2011 at 02:41
Always interesting to see new ideas. From the start I was thinking it was inspired a little by Vampire Bloodlines & then you had screenshots from it.
When I was outlining my ideas for LSD-style web-narrative gameplay, I figured out the mechanic could work with a conversation kind of gameplay too.
The basic mechanic is it's like a kind of dream-world or memory-world, where you can replay scenes over and over ... And little changes you make let the world play out a little differently until you find the way to make progress. So that turns a conversation system into a kind of gameplay because even the order you say things leads to different outcomes, and when don't do it in the right order, it gives you hints about more profitable orders for the next time around (like "Lock & Key" or "Rematch" if you know those IF). And of course there doesn't have to be one route, you can get info doing different ways. Then you can get all these threads to learn about other puzzles. Anyway, I was working out this kind of mechanic for a few game ideas. I realize it doesn't apply to this genre as well though; sort of special to its own system.
Jason Moyer on 18/5/2011 at 02:41
Oh man, this thread is starting to remind me of some old Apple/C64/DOS game that was nothing but interacting with a really crappy virtual AI. Please tell me someone else remembers this.
CCCToad on 18/5/2011 at 03:08
Some of this isn't strictly "redefinint". For example, in the Fallout series NPC's will have a more hostile reaction to you if you approach them with your weapon drawn. In the original the difference was enough that walking up with your gun out would usually result in a hostile response.
Koki on 18/5/2011 at 08:02
Quote:
SIDENOTE: Why this is better than traditional skill checks
While this is similar to simple skill / stat checks, it has a crucial difference - transparency. In traditional conversation system, the player doesn't even know how his skills could affect the conversation (he doesnt see "[SEDUCE] I like your hair" until his seduction skill is at appropriate level), and doesn't understand what it would take to actually use a given response (an answer "[SKILLCHECK: Charisma] Gimme money!" tells the player charisma affects it, but not how it affects it). Lastly, by choosing one response in a skill-check based list, the player usually no longer has the ability to go back and ask about something else, or try a different approach.
But is this really what you want to do? Showing the player what's behind the scenes is good for the game part of the game, but bad for the color part of the game(i.e. IMMERSHUN).
demagogue on 18/5/2011 at 14:13
They can get the feedback through NPC responses & gestures. They'll let you know you're aggressive or polite, and a lot of things can contribute to that... Then the player can try to maximize one side or balance sides any way they think is intuitive.
But anyway this is in the RPG genre so people are used to little dials for stuff. It'd be different if you were tailoring this for an immersive FPS.
Koki on 18/5/2011 at 14:32
Yeah, but to do that all you need to do is tell the player "your stats matter". And leave the details for powergamers like me.
DaBeast on 18/5/2011 at 19:09
Without quite possible the best conversation development tools in the games' editor, implementing the kind of system you want seems like such a monumental task.
I'm sure such ideas have been passed around design meetings over the years and versions of it have actually been tried before, the industry seems to have settled for either traditional or what you call "mass effect" styles.
Today I finished my Knowledge Based Systems exam, kind of enjoyed it, and before I came here I was actually pondering along the same lines. Although I was just basically curious about threading and links to a KB, whether a KBS is actually used for a conversation system and generally how much bloody work it actually is to do.
So I'm left with these thoughts after reading your post:
Development focus/ratio. How much of the actual gameplay revolves around the conversation system? How will spending time/resources on it affect gameplay.
Its already very hard to be original (no offence), and making something more intricate doesn't necessarily equate to better. I honestly think Bioware have a reasonable system. considering your points on conversation skill, that roughly compares with the paragon/renegade system, which also doubles as a karma meter, not perfect, but the game isn't broken with it. Obviously the more of a cunt you are to people, the more sinister your appearance becomes, and people in the games do react to it. Mostly though its only a brief mention like "oh look at your face" or "nice scar" w/e...
Personally what I want is a conversation system that doesn't feel like I'm boxed into making a series of decisions with consideration for the end game. Meaning, I like to answer, based on the available dialogue options, just how I feel like it, I don't like running through the game answering 'nice guy' all of the time, because you only get the best ending sequence because you happened to have 50 'nice guy' points.
sure it may add replay, but its just so forced.
