Reliance on 19/10/2012 at 03:24
Quote Posted by jtr7
Really? :eek:
Really, really!
Sneaksie on 19/10/2012 at 11:56
Wow, the lady Boyle mission was done by Purah? No wonder then why there are randomized targets :thumb: Great to know that talent doesn't go unpunished sometimes :D
scarykitties on 19/10/2012 at 18:29
Quote Posted by Sneaksie
Wow, the lady Boyle mission was done by Purah? No wonder then why there are
randomized targets :thumb: Great to know that talent doesn't go unpunished sometimes :D
That's pretty awesome! I loved that mission!
That said, I think that most of the "references" listed in this thread are either coincidence or circumstantial. You could say, "The game involves you knocking out AI, just like Thief, so that's a reference!" but it's not really a reference. Inspired, maybe, but a reference should be a direct relation to something you can recognize, like the afore-mentioned assassins having a dialog that sounds like the Keeper's training. That's a true reference.
So things like chains being "references" to rope arrows isn't really so.
While you do climb on roofs and infiltrate a party in both Boyle's mission and Life of the Party, that doesn't make it reference. It's just a similar concept/gameplay.
I don't think that Tallboys are meant to be a reference to Children of Karras any more than any enemy with a weak spot is.
The "must have been rats..." may be an intentional reference, though.
Personally, I think of Dishonored as only barely being steampunk. There's not much visible steam or clockwork technology at play. Most of it is electrical, heavy machinery (running on oil, which would basically be the same as modern mechanics), etc. Metal is largely in large, formed parts rather than riveted or bolted together. It feels far more on the line of Half-Life 2 level technology, in my opinion, except things are run by whale oil.
I was surprised how little of the world was really explored, for better or worse. The implications of
using a semi-mechanized version of the Empress's heart are never explored, nor is the
whole matter of all energy coming from slaying a dwindling population of magical whales. The story sticks very closely to the
forced and painfully obvious story of
Corvo being framed in the most abrupt and unbelievable way possible, then be betrayed again in a twist that one could see coming a mile away and which really goes nowhere since, aside from the overly-long climb out of the Flooded District, your actual "revenge" is one of the shortest levels of the game as is really robbed of any significance when, at least in my playthrough, you find that two of the three traitors are dead and the third is apologetic of what was done. That may be something that varies by the multiple endings thing, though.
Still, it barely fit that
I played a non-lethal playthrough and yet was still betrayed because the Loyalists wanted to separate themselves from Corvo politically as if he was some kind of horrible murderer when they could have easily come clean with the fact that they were loyal to the Empress and had unseated the unrightful usurpers using peaceful means. It was much more out of character for
them to turn on Corvo and try to have everything pinned on him, particularly since the Empress would never forgive them for betraying/killing her protector/father. It's kind of dumb.
Now, Thief's own stuff can be seen from miles away as well, but it never felt as big a deal as it does for Dishonored
even though, in Thief 2, Garrett knows everything he needs to know about Karras's plot and how to stop him from the Eavesdropping mission where Karras exposits and explains while whole scheme, yet Garrett has to figure everything out all over again throughout all the remaining game missions. Maybe I'm just older, nostalgic, and biased.
Hit Deity on 20/10/2012 at 05:01
Quote Posted by scarykitties
So things like chains being "references" to rope arrows isn't really so.
While you do climb on roofs and infiltrate a party in both Boyle's mission and Life of the Party, that doesn't make it reference. It's just a similar concept/gameplay.
I don't think that Tallboys are meant to be a reference to Children of Karras any more than any enemy with a weak spot is.
Huh, you must've missed the part where I said: "Similar elements though, maybe not direct references:". I know they're not direct references, I just wanted to include my 2 cents' worth. :p Don't burst ma bubble, man/gal. :cool:
Kerrle on 20/10/2012 at 20:36
Quote Posted by scarykitties
Still, it barely fit that
I played a non-lethal playthrough and yet was still betrayed because the Loyalists wanted to separate themselves from Corvo politically as if he was some kind of horrible murderer when they could have easily come clean with the fact that they were loyal to the Empress and had unseated the unrightful usurpers using peaceful means. It was much more out of character for
them to turn on Corvo and try to have everything pinned on him, particularly since the Empress would never forgive them for betraying/killing her protector/father. It's kind of dumb.
I don't think you've fully considered that. Corvo had been
publicly blamed for that murder for months; even if you never killed anyone the public perception is going to be that Corvo was a murderer who'd killed the person closest to him, and they'd have to work considerably to correct that belief. But far more importantly, their ability to influence the Empress would be seriously diminished with Corvo around, and she'd been sheltered enough from what was happening that they may well have thought they could hide what they'd done and color her impression of Corvo over time. They would be far less able to be the "power behind the throne" with Corvo around, and if you listen to their logs you can see when they start considering such things.Sure, I saw it coming and yes it could have been presented a bit better, but I didn't find it particularly dumb or unreasonable.
And yes, that last encounter is quite different depending on how you play.
Myth on 23/10/2012 at 15:09
I've gotten up to the plot twist right now. I'm playing a non-lethal, knockout style game. First thing to notice is the art - the textures are not realistic, but instead seem like high-res concept art done with Corel Painter. It gives the game a slightly art/cartoonish (but not manga style) feel which has a stark contrast with the grim reality of the setting.
The second thing that stands out is that they tried to please both crowds. Obviously, the game has been made by stealth shooter fans, and I bet by Thief fans (who said something about Purah being involved? Please share the info). However, most of the 13 year old X-box, COD/Assassin's Creed kids want to murderize things and feel awesome while doing it. So you can do that, or you can play thief-style, and you have the tools to do both.
However, due trying to please everyone, the stealth system has been oversimplified for my tastes. First, they dropped the Thief style shadow concealment because it was deemed "unrealistic" and instead adopted a line of sight and cover system. The result is a very counter-intuitive need to doge the narrow cones of light that illustrate NPC view spectrum, and the even more counter-intuitive result of shadows not hiding you at all at close and medium range. You have a regular "Rambo" mode and a sneaky mode. When you press the "sneak now, 10x" button Corvo crouches down and he suddenly becomes like a cat. It doesn't matter what surface you're walking on, or if you're hiding behind a railing, you're invisible.
So slowing down is not really required, nor is avoiding loud surfaces. You crouch, you win basically (as far as sneaking goes). This is further made easier with the two muffle upgrades you buy for your boots. OK, I agree that maybe wearing tap dancing shoes to a robbery like Garrett does doesn't really make sense, but once you spend a paltry amount of coin, you can literally hold shift and run like a mad man and no one will hear you approach. So much for that.
So sound is made useless, and shadows don't work unless you're 100 meters from the npc. Cover works perfectly. You also get tools that further make sneaking a breeze, albeit an enjoyable, casual breeze. For anyone who had to ghost across a marble floor and trying not to bump into the hammer haunts, the access to things like a 65 meter blink and stopping time for 10 seconds will surely let you relax and drink juice while playing (for the most part).
I did reload a ton of times, but mainly because NPC senses are oddly "black and white". They either see you approach or if you step 10 cm to the left, they're oblivious and you can do anything but super jump (yes, you can upgrade your jumping) on their head.
Don't get me wrong, these are not whines or bitter resentments for a game which is obviously well made and which has "spirit". I'm just sharing info that only Thief fans will get so you can understand my take on things.
Now, the game is indeed not quite steampunk. Walls of light, the city wide announcement system and steel cabins for the city watch are 100% Half-Life 2 design and seem a bit out of place for me. Espeically the force field lights and those steel cabins, they are mot-a-mot taken form HL2 Overwatch designs.
The game adds that required semi-RPG element all the kids want nowadays, and you can upgrade your weapons and add traits (called bone charms) as well as purchase magical powers. Overall, if you want to be this awesome bloodthirsty assassin guy, you can. But hey, when I was a kid I used to play the Thief 1 demo on easy and I killed everyone too, so I can't judge.
The blink spell and the super jump really add a level of freedom when roaming Dunwall which feels very refreshing and Assassin's Creed-y, though while in AC you can't really fall unless you're brain dead (your character always auto jumps or auto grabs a ledge), here a lot of the higher roofs or derraces have invisible walls blocking blinks or mantling, which detracts a bit from the fluidity.
Personally, I'd like to do a playtrough without any super powers and just ghosting like a regular human. I'm sure that'd be fun. If mods can be made for this game however, it's a texture pack and a light gem away from becoming Thief 3.5
Sneaksie on 25/10/2012 at 13:50
I did just that, i've played through without magic and tried to play like in Thief. I used Blink as you get it anyway and it's cool though (and I doubt you can get to all places without it). Very good experience, especially if you make no or very few kills. Blink makes knockouts relatively easy because you can blink behind the guard that is approaching you (but they seldom patrol completely alone). This somewhat compensates the fact that in most cases you can't count on hiding in a shadow in a plain sight. Stealth mechanic felt right for me, there were plenty of moments when i was tempted to start a killing spree because I had been detected several times in a row.
Speaking of Thief references, there is a (wonderful!) credits song that contains lines 'the taller they stand the harder they fall'. I doubt it is a direct reference as it's a popular saying, but I immediately thought about that intro to 'Casing the Joint' T2 OM about height of civilization ('...when we looked at their ruins, we marked the danger of that height').
Myth on 26/10/2012 at 07:18
Oh, and I must add that the sound effects and voice acting are very Thief-like. The "gasp!" sound effect when you are discovered (not a literal gasp but an intense bang on several piano keys and something else added) is almost the same as the sound effect you hear in Thief games when you discover something plot-related (you know the one i'm talking about)
The voice actors and the sounds the guards make (grumbling, spitting etc.) give a very Thiefy feeling.
Jones95 on 26/10/2012 at 23:31
If you listen to the Outsider on the Kaldwin's Bridge mission, he mentions that another city used to stand where Dunwall is now. He also mentions artifcats turning up occasionally (particularaly runes). I recall that The City in Thief stands where Karath-Din (the lost city) once did, and Precursor artifacts are still around the place. This might be a reference, but maybe a coincidence.
Constance on 29/10/2012 at 15:33
Hmm by the way, it's not related to Thief, but don't you think that "door to nowhere" up in Piero's atelier is an obvious reference to Portal ?
