Azaran on 22/1/2015 at 18:56

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Christians (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30919259) destroying things in the name of their religion. In Ireland of all places

Le MAlin 76 on 23/1/2015 at 00:55

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It's political.... The religious factor is important for national feeling nationnal in Ireland, but feeling national is nor religious, their is too cultural, linguistic, economic factors.

I study war of Religion and French, and it's a political and social civil war: the protestants and then catholics who fighted against the King was to reduce taxes..... And in the Bible God didn't say that king of France must reduce taxes... And the beheaded of Duc of Guise was not religious act but political, it was the glorious victory of reason of State (National interest/raison d'Etat) which is the only rational decisions of a man of State to protect the State and the Nation. And Henry IVrd use the Religious Tolerance to increase taxes, increase the power of king, and to threat creditors of death sentence to manage a disguised bankruptcy. And Henry IVrd deletted the debt of Kingdom... It's religious to kill the noblemen who caused the debt of Kingdom because they wanted a war ? No it's political. It's a political choice which succeded.



And communists killed the Tsar in the name of God ? No need Bible or Muslim texts for Staline to kill many Polish !

The other use the religious texts for political things. But we must understand that the State, the King or President is the only soverign man who decide to control religions. If anyone doesn't control religions there are seditious religious like islamist terrorist in Streets of France, or in the pas there was protestants and ultra-catholics who destroyed the established order of the Kings. If anyone doesn't control the corporations, they became feodalist entities who fight against political power. If anyone doesn't control the societies, it will be the chaos.

faetal on 23/1/2015 at 07:15

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Yet you still haven't provided links to any scientific research. Also, who mentioned Dawkins?

And yes, Dick Cheney is a loathsome human being. Talking of special pleading, I'd call starting scientific research with the premise of a creator existing, is some fairly special pleading. If there were research, which apropos of nothing pointed in the direction of an intelligent entity having created the universe or systems within it (barring systems created by us of course), then I'd call that scientific basis for a creator. Theoretical physicists at the boundary of our comprehension of reality talking about the very nature of quantum physics being analogous to a divine force doesn't really cut it (in case that's the "scientific research" you're hinting at). Again it's god of the gaps. The "god dun evryfing" worldview of the dark ages has been pushed further and further to the very vestiges of empirical wisdom and now it turns out that god lives in the bit which we don't fully comprehend. Ah god, that sneaky tyke - always staying right in our blind spot.

Le MAlin 76 on 23/1/2015 at 11:54

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I am historian and catholic. As a historian I know the scientist methodolosy (and History is a Human Science), and i know that their is limits to the rationnal knowledge of the Human and the World. There is no hard sciences or not soft sciences. The History is a Great Science that try to explain who is really the human, how he really live, and to know in generaly how react an normal human, with the évolutions in the Time. The History is not the science of the past and the dates, because the history is alltime in relation with present. If we are interesting by a such event of past, it's because it made echoe in the present, or because it's could a new time again produced in a near future. We are not "prophets" but we can warn the people with the past examples. As historian i don't believe a progressiv evolution of History, like christians or marxists, but as Greek i think there are cycles, and maybe a small part of random; but the humans of today have many things that are like the medievals humans of humans of Antiquity. He evolve, but he kepts great and solid roots. These roots provoked a similars things in all History. In the Religious War of France the French were angry against the taxes, and today too... if it's continues maybe there will be a civil war, because all regims (monarchy, republic, "democracy" [democracy is not a reality is just an utopia for the weak minds and mentaly sick and for manipulate the peoples... The Athen's Democracy used slaves, and now the democracy enslaving poor asians children for work in factories and for the material happiness of Europeans and Americans], ditactorship, etc.] who not hear the people can only to be destroy in the fire and in the populace's fury. The scientist metholodogies are not perfect, and if the scientist know all the humans didn't questionnated about many things. And the source of science are all time limitated. And in final all scientists have a problem: the perfect neutrality is not existing.

As Catholic i believe in religion, i like the priest, bishop, etc. the Church organisation, and all doctrines (maybe not all but 95% ^^ I am not fanatic i can criticize the Church when i find that things are not good, or like a priest used the Cathedral of Le Havre like a parish Church, whereas it's in theory the first Church in protocol of the diocese, and that is the mort old building of the City of Le Havre destroyed by English in 1944; this a great monument of the French Renaissance with a mix of gothic and antiquisly architect with a baroque facade, and a great history; i can criticized the celibacy of the priest because it was political deicision of the Emperor of Roman Germanic Holy Empire, and not religious based decision, etc.). I believe thet all the universe was founded by God, but i believe the theory of Big Bang, i know i live a Star ( the proto-star in nebula, the ordinary phase, the red giant, the supernova, the questions of the thermonucleat fusion that produced photons, the black holes, etc. i am interesting by astrophysics, etc.) and i think that the Creation of the Genesis is just a poem and not a scientist book which explain how the universe was created. As Historian i know how separate my religious convictions and the duties of scientist. As historian i have not to say if God existing or not, there are no prooves of one answer, and i must analyze the populations in rapport of their believing (political or religous) and i have not to criticize that. I studies the practice as historian and with the lights of anthropologics research and other Human science. The question of the God is not a scientist question but a question of personnal believing. We can believe or not, but the both are safe of their believing. The only man who is safe of that God is existing is a islamist terrorist, it's Jacques Clement or Ravaillac who killed our beloved King Henry IIIrd and IVth in "the name of God", it's all religious fanatics. A man who is safe thet God is not existing it's Lenin or Staline or Pol Pot who killed all men who believe of the existance of a deity. These men must be eradicate, because they are all terrorist or tyrants eventually becomming. All men who are against sciences are fanatics, or men who are against religions are fanatics. All men who kill in the name of a god, of a value, is fanatic. But less the power of the State, of the Fathers of Nations like Obama who is fasther of all americans, the French president who is father of all France, ore Komorowski who is father of all Polish, we are all orphans whithout the protection of the Police or the Armies, and less Justice institutions who protect the Society with Equity.We must reduce the power of econmic actors and come back to the Nations-State to fight to the death the fanatics: we cannot negociate with their, so we must kill them before they kill us. If we kill them it's not by hatred, not because of God, of "Republican Value" of the leftists French (who want to established a sovietic republic in France), but because of the leigitim defense, because of the protection of the Nation and mother country. The americans must fight for amercians safety, french for France's safety, and Russians for Russia's safety, and for all countries we can say that. We have all the duty to protect our respective nations, but with the respect of other Nations, the respect of sovereignety, but with Justice and gentleness with men who we can give a second chance. But against fanatics who want to destroy our societies and establish totalitarian regimes (in base of political, philosophical or religious ideas) we must be ruthless.

Tony_Tarantula on 24/1/2015 at 18:31

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The first one is a complicated answer.....because I reject "flat earth atheism" but I also don't accept "man in the sky" style christianity.



Not in this thread. We had a pretty extensive discussion of it previously and I do not feel the need to re-link a half dozen studies. And nobody's directly mentioned Dawkins directly but you are parroting his intellectually dishonest arguments.



You're focusing on strawmen and ignoring my previous point: people who do bad things because of nebulous, intangible ideologies that demand they do those horrible things to advance the cause.



And, as amply demonstrated by history, people have a dozen other stupid excuses lined up......meaning that you've accomplished precisely jack shit.