Xorak on 4/6/2015 at 04:22
If you want to increase immersion, instead of limiting saves, make the player so frightened to move onwards so that no matter how many times they quick save in a row with every step they inch forward, they're still forced to move into the scary area either they like it or not. Let them save to their heart's content, but it won't help them a bit. :sly:
gamophyte on 4/6/2015 at 05:20
It's just a thought but I like that pace of play. It's like the moment to breath when you find a stash of equipment somewhere. It's the one place to relax a second before moving on. Face it the quicksave is the most powerful weapon. The chapels would have been in a grid and always close, there would be no iron man anything in that regard. Just no the muscle reflex to oh-shit-quick-load.
Look at the amount of jump-scare undead fan missions, even after the majority has said thief2 was great without undead and more looting human domains. Why then? It puts fear back into the player, and if you force them to go through it in a linear fashion, for me, you are missing the point of thief2. Don't get me wrong, some are just brilliant but most I just just skip over.
So with human guards, and non linear play, what's there to do? Break up and pace tension with safe houses.
Slop example but red areas are intense new AI voice acted not safe areas. Green are places where no penalty for saving, and rest.
Inline Image:
http://i.imgur.com/E07CGD4.pngXorak on 4/6/2015 at 07:53
This might annoy players to no end, but on Expert, what about a system where every time the player reloads, a special piece of loot is deleted from the end of the mission? That way if players want a perfect loot score, they can't reload. No matter what you do, the players who want the extra challenge will play in a way that challenges them, while the rest of the players expect the game to operate the way it should operate.
But I know the feeling you're going for. In the game Monaco that came out a couple years ago, there's no save/reload allowed. There's no greater feeling than playing a 2 hour mission knowing that if you screw up for one second it can be all over as the guards chase you down and kill you. For better or for worse, once games started routinely having save features back in the late 80s or whenever, it changed game design and player expectations forever.
gamophyte on 4/6/2015 at 08:02
Right, but not that, never said whole mission without load. They would load back 15 feet away from where they died. Thay would be danger quadrants - arenas scattered about where its better to run that load 15 feet earlier. My idea works only with chapels peppered in the mission but always close. It's still optional as planned.
nicked on 4/6/2015 at 09:38
It is really annoying when people reload the moment a guard hears them breathing, and if you could limit saving it could lead to some really intense moments. Quicksave abuse is a great way to stop enjoying Thief, and it's also an easy trap to fall into.
If it were possible, I'd be inclined to have it on Expert only, so that people who couldn't live without their quicksaves could still play. It's an interesting problem for sure, maybe something that could go into a future New Dark patch?
R Soul on 4/6/2015 at 14:08
It's up to players to have some self control, but if someone enjoys aiming for perfection, who are we to interfere with that by restricting quicksaving? I don't play many FMs but sometimes I find AI who seem very jumpy, they turn around every 3 seconds, or there's some other irrational situation. Now imagine a quicksave limit.
SlyFoxx on 4/6/2015 at 15:20
Changing a core game-play mechanic is risky at best, a major annoyance at worst. Proceed with caution. Otherwise great missions have suffered greatly because of it.
gamophyte on 5/6/2015 at 00:20
I appreciate the debate and feedback greatly. Thanks again! Everyone made solid points.
The idea would be, yes on master level, or a whole alt zipped mission. In regards to the jumpy guard; if this red zone is a great challenge, again, you weren't loading far from where you loaded at worse. At best I put 10 ways around that guard. I will have lots of climbing areas. It makes the game unpredictable and puts a slight muzzle on your quick-load fingers.
What I agree is NOT fun, if these red zone challenge areas have glitches. If this idea is implemented, I will scour the FM for bugs. I want the AI to be as intended. I want climbing smooth and no player falls do to poor design.
I know it's controversial but I believe it would put some thrill back into the game.
So going forward it will be the penalty (should be light anyway) of quick-load, but, can this penalty be lifted if loading in certain room brushes?
I don't think I want them as chapels now. So that wherever they are, they don't look out of place. I have a massive sewer, wtf why is ther 6 chapels there?
I think I'm going to go with something keeper, like maybe some electronic repeater device the keepers hijacked so that player can rematerialize.
