Albert on 9/6/2009 at 19:28
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Oh really? How so? I always thought they were like the Catholic Church during the time of the Inquisition, and by Inquisition I mean The Spanish Inquisition under the rule of Tomas de Torquemada.
Yeh, them too...
... I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition! ;)
Inline Image:
http://www.radioanywhere.co.uk/upload/108/1766.spanish_inquisition.jpgSorry, couldn't help myself...
But, unlike Catholics, I'd say the hammerites make better use of technology, and use it to keep tight control over those under them (much like scientology, which has received guff in the media for maintaining their similarly-cult-like system of keeping others from trying to dethrone them...)
Though really, this brings a horrible image to mind:
Was Tom Cruise's face inspiration for one of the hammerites? If so, that would be hilarious
nicked on 9/6/2009 at 20:20
What a flat article...
It read a bit like "My first Religious Studies essay" by a Thief fan. And a Thief fan who either didn't do his research or ran out of waffling room - why, in a discussion of Thief religions, was there not one mention of Mechanists?
SubJeff on 9/6/2009 at 20:35
How do scientologists use technology to control?
Quote:
Was Tom Cruise's face inspiration for one of the hammerites?
Why on earth would you think that?
Stath MIA on 9/6/2009 at 20:42
A true and thought provoking article. Rather a dull read but still interesting. I'm glad T4 is renewing general interest, hopefully we'll see more such articles written as EM releases more details.
Albert on 9/6/2009 at 20:53
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Why on earth would you think that?
Because in is scientologist video, he sorta has that cult rhetoric, though obviously more modern and less corny as the hammerite rhetoric.
Still, an FM with a Tom Cruise Hammerite would make for a really corny in-joke! :joke:
PotatoGuy on 9/6/2009 at 21:33
Weird, I didn't think at all this read was boring. In my opinion a well-written piece.
@ Albert: When i saw Subjective Effect's post I just KNEW you were gonna do that! Third time you post a pic of that scene, isn't it? :joke: Oh well, can't blame you, I can't get enough of it myself.
Chade on 9/6/2009 at 22:13
Quote Posted by Wormrat
Look. I like all the little details in
Thief. The game is pumped full of atmosphere and it's wonderful. But that statement is nonsense.
Thief works because it's fun to hide in shadows, knock people over the head, and nick their stuff. Otherwise, straightforward rob-the-mansion FMs like Heist Society wouldn't "work," according to this author.
I do enjoy
Thief's believable treatment of religion, but this guy goes off the rails trying to praise it.
He may go over the top, but his statement is not nonsense. 99% of the interaction in thief is mediated through the environment. You need to pay attention to it all the time. Looking for light and shadow. Looking for places where guards might appear (doors and corners). Listening for footsteps. Looking for loot. One of the key differences between a stealth game and most action games is that there are lots of details in the environment which the player needs to pay close attention to.
When your entire game rests upon the player paying close attention to his environment, you damn well better have an environment that is interesting to pay attention to. The author is right.
Namdrol on 9/6/2009 at 22:50
And it was more than the immediate playing environment.
It was the whole environment created by the very believable and at times disturbing cultural setting.
I still find myself in deep catharsis through it all.
Which is all a religion is. A way of catharsis.
And troll my arse for being as overblown and frothing as the article.
:thumb:
Edit: Maybe he's been looking around here recently.
Folk got religion bad around here. Abortion an all.
Renzatic on 10/6/2009 at 00:40
Quote Posted by Wormrat
No need to gush about it. Or are you trying to tell me that backstory about the Hammerites and Pagans somehow helped you spot shadows and guards?
How memorable would Thief have been if that's all there was to it? Gameplay alone can only take you so far. If you don't have good motivation and backstory, specially for slow games that require alot of patience like Thief, things don't end up being nearly as interesting.
The reason we're all jabbering on about Thief 10 years later isn't just because spotting shadows and guards is so damn fun. The setting and story are at least half the reason for it's longevitiy.
Chade on 10/6/2009 at 01:46
Quote Posted by Wormrat
If you are agreeing with the author's statement, you think:
1) in-game religious lore was necessary to make the environment interesting
and
2)
Thief would not have been worth playing (would not have "worked") without it.
Both statements are ridiculous.
Yes, both those statements are ridiculous. That's no surprise. You can take any opinion, blow it out of proportion, and come up with something ridiculous. I said that the author exagerrated. That doesn't excuse you doing the same thing.
Environmental flavour is very important in a game that forces the user to pay close attention to the environment. Your mind catalogues every corner of every room in thief. If the relatively small number of gameplay concepts was all your mind had to process, it would quickly get boring. Cataloguing the environment is kept interesting by the stories embedded in the environment ... the symbols, architecture, readables, etc ...
