R Soul on 7/3/2005 at 01:01
Maybe the Mechanists existed long before Karras came along, but unitl then they were much less radical, or perhaps they were just a link between the self-righteous Hammerites and ordinary people.
What I'd like to know is why are the inhabitants being called 'puppets'? :confused:
I've yet to see a text in the game that calls them that, though I've only just finished the mission so perhaps something can be found later...
Holywhippet on 7/3/2005 at 03:54
Quote Posted by R Soul
Maybe the Mechanists existed long before Karras came along, but unitl then they were much less radical, or perhaps they were just a link between the self-righteous Hammerites and ordinary people.
What I'd like to know is why are the inhabitants being called 'puppets'? :confused:
I've yet to see a text in the game that calls them that, though I've only just finished the mission so perhaps something can be found later...
The game says the Mechanists were a splinter group that formed after the events of the first game showed the Hammerites failed to protect themselves against the Pagan's. The tension might have already existed but it was only then that a number of them split apart. I'm guessing the Victriola was invented by someone else = the Hammerites don't have a monopoly on technology. Remember that there was a recording studio at the warehouse which suggests the technology was somewhat commonplace.
I think players are calling them puppets due to their look and the shaky way they move around.
Musopticon? on 7/3/2005 at 18:09
I have a feeling that Cradle, like the Severed Hand in IWD 2, got a lot more attention design-wise than all the other missions. Which is sad really, I hoped that the human missions would have got more attention considering there'e more of them in the game. Cradle feels a bit too different(SH2, anyone?) from the whole game for me to congratulate it as much as anyone else does.
It's still amazing. :p
Pitch on 7/3/2005 at 19:47
Quote Posted by Holywhippet
I'm guessing the Victriola was invented by someone else
Yes, why not. But I'm more concerned about the "Mechanist" word. How could they know about the Mechanists if they weren't present at that time?
R Soul on 7/3/2005 at 22:48
Maybe it was a mistake then...just pretend Mechanist is actually the name of a profession/skill (like Machinist) that was hijacked by Karrarse in the same way this thread's being hijacked by a discussion about a continuity error :joke: :o
242 on 13/3/2005 at 00:41
For those who were ineresting, I found that puppets can be "killed" for good on expert mode with:
2-3 Flashbombs (3 if alerted)
2-3 Fire Arrows (same as above)
1 Explosive Mine
1 Holy Water
And there are 9 puppets in the Cradle, and not 8 as someone said.
It's just a question who is who in some cases. For example, unknown are identities of lying puppet in the Morgue, the one who patrols before treatment rooms and one who patrols in front of cells 2-5. I guess the latest is M."Gourmet" Gunter from cell#2, because locations of everyone else from cells 3-5 are known. The main question is who from them is King No One - the puppet patrolling near treatment rooms or body in the morgue...
PS: I believe the puppet who patrols in big circle (launge-hall of records-mess hall-hall in front on treatment rooms-hall of records-launge) is arsonist from cell#9 because she stays near fireplace in the launge for a while.
Ezyduck on 13/3/2005 at 17:34
DREAD. That was the feeling I experienced during playing The Cradle, DREAD.
The Cradle got to me for real. Some people played the level in chunks, I just couldn't stop, I wanted to know what was going on, it really trapped me and I wanted OUT, OUT, OUT ! Also, The Cradle hurted me physically... I was lighting a cigarette when the knocking came, I was so spooked that I dropped my zippo and, as these slapstick things go, it fell just in the top of my unlaced boot... Ouch. The thief got burned on this deal :o
Eco on 25/3/2005 at 12:39
I had to have a break from TDS after finishing The Cradle. It is without doubt the finest level in any comoputer game I have had the good fortune to play. It scared the crap out of me. I was playing it with headphones on, in the dark, and at one point my girlfriend exasperatedly asked me "will you please stop that?"
"What?" I said
"Grinding your teeth in that horrible way. Why are you playing that horrible thing?"
She likes toontown. :)
Id like to comment on the remarks Ive seen here about loading up, using flashbombs etc. For some reason I assumed from the moment I saw my first puppet that they were all unkillable. Ive no idea why, I just thought this and didnt question it. Maybe it was because of the dearth of them, as has been pointed out there arent that many of them. Needless to say, this made my experience all the more horrific and intense. I accidentally therefore ghosted my way through the whole mission unitl I got the message telling me I couldnt go thru the door till Id collected the special loot items. As I was in the past and I didnt think I could go back to the present, I got fairly frustrated after looking everywhere again and finally quit and restarted! That was a groaning moment I can tell you, haveing to do it all again knowing what was coming! Still thinking they were unkillable I avoided them all again untill the morgue puppet made it unavoidable. I used oil and a fire arrow I think. After that I realised I could kill them, but I felt that that would be not treating the level with the respect I fell it deserves. If ever a level was made for ghosting, its this one.
My point is that Im glad I didnt just wipe them out with a couple of flashbombs and then stroll thru blase and complete it. This level needs a slow reluctant pace. Ive never been so immersed in a level. It was absolutely brilliant.
The other good thing about restarting the level was that on the second way thru, I took much more notice of all the ambient sounds, noticed little things like the chair in front of the staff tower, and examined what I was seeing with fresh eyes, so to speak, becoming aware that everything in the leve is there for a purpose. It was like diving into a bath of ice cold blood.
Bloody marvelous. You should be proud, Null.
Eco
Blood Dragon on 25/3/2005 at 13:51
I had to use a walkthrough, which told me where puppets located, to complete this frightening mission. Anyone who stay in the Cradle for just a while will surely gone mad!
The only bits that can't be purely ghosted was that one lying besides the Bag of Golden Teeth, and the staff table on the top floor of staff tower. Otherwise this would make "Ghosting in a haunted house" true. A human could out-ghost the ghosts.
Fish-face on 27/3/2005 at 13:35
I was so scared I, also decided I had to clear out all the puppets before I completed it.
However, depending on your definition of ghosting, it's still possible to complete. I would say that certain distractions count within ghosting, since otherwise it just gets ridiculous. Anyway, I elected to use a noisemaker for the final table. However, I did notice that one of the staff ran through the "fire" and turned to dust. The other tricky one was [SPOILER]sitting in the lounge[/SPOILER] - you had to walk in an entrance that had light pouring in, and he got up and started wandering around. Fortunately I managed to get to the other side of the room, so I remained unfound.
One thing that caught my attention - the staff 'flash' every so often - the same way frobabble objects do, but when I was walking behind the one in [SPOILER]the nursery[/SPOILER], he didn't highlight. Weird.
Anyways, yeah. This is simply a fantastic mission. Something that can make me that absolutely, gut-wrenchingly TERRIFIED, while being ON THE SCREEN is... simply genius. Genius doesn't cover it. Somehow, the atmosphere became so thick that something not particularly scary was amplified thousands of time.
The knocking... oooohhh, the knocking. The way it stopped and started and tricked me into calming myself, before making jump... TWICE. And then once I'd seen what I was truly up against... What I felt was disgust. And sadness. Reading the doctors notes on the treatments... "The heat must be applied directly to the skin.." The lobotomy theatre, with both description and evidence of the '"botched" lobotomies - ' that's just wrong. The descriptions of the crimes, the warped, twisted, melancholy music.
I can still remember creeping around... even after I'd taken down the puppets. And when I came across them before "destroying" them, my heart raced. Those godawful shrieks, the beautiful architecture (the faces... oooh, the faces) the incomprehensible whispers, sobs, sounds (the cells, arrgh, that baby crying) the descriptions of the patient's problems - I cannot express how completely, mind-blowingly incredible this is.
Null, consider yourself deified. You and your team deserve worship for this piece. I am not one who is scared easily. You made me terrified, sad, disgusted and sympathetic, all with a single mission of a video game.
P.S. all the hints about the cradle beforehand were a brilliant addition, too.
