Elentari on 4/12/2007 at 06:44
Ok, after reading the lockpick thread below...I got curious again. I have been trying to think of a logical, reasonable way that rope and vine arrows would actually work. The problems are fairly obvious.
1. An arrow is fairly light wood, generally speaking. There's no way it would support the weight of a full grown man. I'm not even sure about the weight of a child.
2. Where is the rope/vine stored before it hits? There's no room inside the arrow, rope tends to be too bulky.
3. Even if the shaft itself could support the weight of a climber (never mind *two*, if he happens to be carrying someone. Although, logically, I'm not sure how he could climb with someone over his shoulder anyway), what is to prevent it from pulling back out of the wood its shot into?
A grappling hook I can see. But an arrow? I have yet to find a satisfactory explanation for these. Are they magical? Do they hold in place and support his weight because they are spelled? Is this how they also hold the rope? If so, how would they release when you want to pick them up?
Anyone have any thoughts on this? :)
Solabusca on 4/12/2007 at 07:49
Well, I've already come up with some ideas regarding the Vine arrow elsewhere.
Perhaps Rope arrows are crafted from some incredibly hard 'fantasy' wood, or are alchemically hardened.
.j.
jtr7 on 4/12/2007 at 08:25
Yeah. You gotta throw out physics as we understand them. You gotta accept the fact that there is magic or something going on that seems like magic.
The vine arrow could work on a much more specialized variant of a principle similar to Viki's ability to grow her limbs explosively and precisely controlled.
Beleg Cúthalion on 4/12/2007 at 08:28
I was in Prague two weeks ago and bought an arrow head because it was quite close to what I had in mind for making a rope arrow really work. I'll make a photo later...
It's basically the usual anti-chainmail arrow head (i.e. square-cut, in this case two inches long, tapered (?) off), but – and this was special – with little stamped-in barbed hooks. So this thing can easily go into wood because it's rather slim, but has enough "grip" at the same time.
For the rope arrow I think you'd need to attach a loop to the head (not to the shaft, that won't work) which carries a thin rope with it – drawn through on both sides – that doesn't hinder the arrow too much during it's flight, and then makes it possible to draw a bigger rope knotted to one side of the thin one through the loop so that you can climb up after making one more knot into the big rope.
At least, theoretically.
ionia23 on 4/12/2007 at 20:49
When you consider the physics of the Thief world allow for staircrating to the top of Angelwatch, is it so hard to consider rope/vine arrows?
BrokenArts on 4/12/2007 at 23:36
I heard the water arrows keep the vine arrows nice and supple, if they don't, they dry out. :( Can't have that.
Elentari on 5/12/2007 at 06:43
Quote Posted by Solabusca
Well, I've already come up with some ideas regarding the Vine arrow elsewhere.
Perhaps Rope arrows are crafted from some incredibly hard 'fantasy' wood, or are alchemically hardened.
I figured someone had, but a search for 'rope arrow' brings up a LOT of results. lol I figured it was easier to ask again than try to dig through and find the right type of thread.
Alchemy hardened could work. I sort of picture a 'fantasy' wood as being something alive - which is sort of freaky in a way. Although it could be. An arrow with magic wood, tipped with that barbed head? Thats one nasty arrow.
Quote:
For the rope arrow I think you'd need to attach a loop to the head (not to the shaft, that won't work) which carries a thin rope with it – drawn through on both sides – that doesn't hinder the arrow too much during it's flight, and then makes it possible to draw a bigger rope knotted to one side of the thin one through the loop so that you can climb up after making one more knot into the big rope.
Thats sort of what I was thinking. . .although I could not figure out how you'd fasten it so the rope would slip right out again. I mean, you pull the light string, the rope goes up. . .withotu being to fasten it to the arrow up there, it'd either pull out or half your energy would go into keeping the line tight. Unless I'm just missing something entirely.
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When you consider the physics of the Thief world allow for staircrating to the top of Angelwatch, is it so hard to consider rope/vine arrows?
Not if you're talking game mechanics. I seriously doubt they meant building stairs of crates was in mind when they designed the world. Thast more one of the oddities of the game engine than a feature you would see in the world itself - if it was a real place. Particularly a you get to places you weren't *supposed* to go to, and not once do you NEED to do it to complete a mission. :P I can accept physics in the world might be different, but - yeah, thats a game issue, not an issue I would associate with the world itself.
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If we considered the potency of the Thief world, we could assume that everything is just a simulation made by superior-keeper gylph magic. But that'd be less interesting.
LOL Exactly. Part of the fun is finding ways it *could* work, outside a game engine. While its quite possible some sort of magic is involved. . .game magic is not included in that possibility.
Beleg Cúthalion, that is one NASTY arrowhead. I'd hate to be hit by that thing. It sort of looks like its built like a fish-hook. Meant to go in, but cause extra damage if you try to take it out. I can definitely see it gripping the wood better. Specially if it was shot in at a closer range so it had some power to drive it in. It would be *hard* to get out, I would think. *grins* Use that and all the nobles will have damaged rafters. Do they stain the damage to blend in or just leave it to collect dust, do you think?
Beleg Cúthalion on 5/12/2007 at 09:10
Give Garrett ten more years and every noble will be glad to have a collection of rope arrow heads in his mansion. Or not. :rolleyes:
I once shot a smaller armour penetrating arrow head with a 40 lbs recurve bow (those beginner pieces) into a wooden plank (about 3cm/1,2" thick) and had to saw it out again because it was halfway through. So you definitely cannot pull it back out.
The one I posted above is surely bigger; also in diameter, which will make the arrow a lot heavier, although it might fit the purpose of it as a rope arrow – the only thing is that I have merely a 60# horsebow which will be slightly overstrained. Concerning the ropes, I suggested that you also pull the light rope until the heavy one comes down and then knot them below (or with a knot that will pull itself back to the arrow head and get sticky there). And because you would need a lot of rope I think it's better to use a grappling hook. But one day I'll try this out.
PS: Funnily, the TDS rope arrow head is also a pricky, tapered off one with barbed hooks.
nicked on 5/12/2007 at 12:25
I guess if the head was designed to have retractable barbs, you could pull it out again - a bit like the safety catch on toy handcuffs.
But surely aerodynamics would skupper a real-life rope arrow. For the rope to be thick enough to climb without those modern slidy-metal wheeled things (anyone know what I'm talking about... :s) it'd need to be pretty darn heavy. I guess if it was made of some really light material and wrapped around so that from the end it was symmetrical, it'd probably fly, but even then, I imagine it wouldn't go very far.
