Elentari on 11/12/2007 at 00:53
Thats the conclusion I've come to. The size of the rope would ruin the flight of any arrow, and somehow I don't see Garrett carrying that much rope around so he can climb up onto a little beam somewhere. Not to mention 4 or 5 rope arrows. The poor guy wouldn't be able to do much else. lol
So, yeah, It think it comes back to the fact that the arrow somehow 'stores' the rope until it impacts something solid, and the same magic returns it to the arrow upon release. Maybe the rope itself is shrunk to fit into the shaft of the arrow and the spell (or whatever) triggers it to grow again.
Come to think of it. . .when you release a rope arrow, isn't there a sparkley little 'magic' effect down the length of the rope as it vanishes? I think that indicates that there IS magic involved.
Which sort of makes me wonder who makes these magic arrows. The Hand Brotherhood hardly seems the type. Nor do the magic weilding pagans/hammers. Even if they aren't specifically 'burglary tools'. ("Magically enhanced mountain climbing sports equipment! Get yours while supplies last!")The 'normal' people about the city don't seem to have magic. Although, I suppose its always possible there's other sources of it that is not mentioned and merchants/craftmen COULD learn to magic their wares.
jtr7 on 11/12/2007 at 01:45
Yeah, Elentari, the
rope "pops" like a bubble, sending a shower of sawdust-colored particles out and down, like fluffy sparks. Heheh.:p
Maybe it's a special variation on the magic behind that particle bridge going into the Spring area of the Maw in TMA, though probably not Pagan magic.
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http://imageshack.us)
Inline Image:
http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/8199/dump000sg8.gifsparhawk on 11/12/2007 at 12:05
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
Where are the arrow concepts for TDM sparhawk? The rope arrow is clearly the answer to all.
In our forum. Where else? :p
nicked on 11/12/2007 at 12:09
I don't think the sawdust pop is magic - it's engine limitations, and gameplay considerations. It'd be pretty crappy if you frobbed a rope arrow and had to wait five minutes for Garrett to coil the rope up. I'd be interested to see how the dark mod handles it. Some sort of retractable tape-measure effect would probably be best - frob the arrow and the rope whips back toward you at high speed.
Zillameth on 11/12/2007 at 14:54
I'm not sure if I'd like to risk being hit by it.
Molock on 11/12/2007 at 18:01
Quote Posted by jtr7
Sure. For the rope to be wrapped around the shaft and uncoil in flight, it would have to ba attached to the head. It would also have to uncoil completely, not remain wound around the shaft more than once upon impact.
An arrow does not sink into wood THAT deep, the arrow would just need a head with a 5'' long spiked pin that penetrates the wood and a head-holder (that thing that attaches the head to the shaft) with a rope-attachment. No useful arrow penetrates wood more than 3'' or so, otherwise the head of the arrow is too small.
The rope that is wrapped around the arrow would require a very strong bow to get some kind of trajectory, but it is possible. The end of the rope should be attached to Garretts girdle so that it unwraps itself during flight.
The middleage longbows were so strong that they could fire arrows weighing as much as an arrow with a rope on it.
But no way, you cant re-use such arrow because you cant get the tiny head out of the wood for sure, except you can pull that tiny arrow you are hardly able to grab harder than you weigh, 205 pounds in my case. :tsktsk:
We could look at todays special forces, if they have to climb something high to get unseen and unheard into a building they use grappling hooks. Same with stealth ninjas.
jtr7 on 11/12/2007 at 19:04
I give up.:( There seems to be confusion over an imaginary world, real world physics, and software. You can't argue one against the other.
Elentari on 12/12/2007 at 00:31
Quote Posted by jtr7
I give up.:( There seems to be confusion over an imaginary world, real world physics, and software. You can't argue one against the other.
No kidding. I think people are missing the point of the discussion. :tsktsk:
Anyway, now you post the screenshots, jtr7, I can see the similarity. Nice catch. But if its not Pagan magic, then maybe something more 'neutral'. I agree, it does not fit the Pagan profile to create magical arrows that drop ropes or vines - and its clearly not Hammerite magic (yes, yes, I know they don't seem like they have magic, but I am of the opinion they have *something* along those lines. Holy water, fake eyes that blow up, etc suggests there's a bit more to them than meets the eye). . .nor do I see the 'elemental mages' making such a thing. It does sort of suggest a possible fifth type of magic.
Although, I dunno what, as I don't think there's anything in the games to really support that. But I like the idea. :D
nicked on 12/12/2007 at 20:57
I cannot for one minute imagine that LGS actually intended the rope arrows to be magical in nature. The original design (see Thief Gold manual concept art) had a four-pronged grapple in place of an arrowhead! There's no mention of magic; I seriously doubt they meticulously planned out a secret race of magician mole people who devote their lives to the arcane study of ropes that can breach dimensions, but are never seen or mentioned in canon...
jtr7 on 12/12/2007 at 21:04
Then let's stick with canon as the priority. Instead of changing the bow, the arrowshaft, the arrowhead, the rope....:thumb:
I have a serious problem with the scientificating (heh, sorry) every damned thing about a fantasy story.
When I look at the variations and contradictions in the elements of the game, including the manuals, and demos, and early concepts, I see that they had rough ideas that were honed. While the game is evolving towards the end result, more artwork is comissioned through different artists, some not always working on Thief, but they can take some time to do some stuff for it, drafts are drawn up, etc. Some stuff never gets reworked, some stuff may not be accurate to the game, but they use what they have. The game manual images show objects and people that aren't in the game. There are things in the game folders that were never in the final product. The devs. talk of struggling to get things to work one way, and having to give it up.
