lowenz on 26/2/2023 at 14:58
Quote Posted by WingedKagouti
Forced in the sense that if they don't, the chance of them actually joining the EU would likely be completely buried for the forseeable future, as opposed to the current status of "You need to do some work on your internal policies". And last time he spoke on the subject, Erdogan still wanted Turkey to be a full member for the various economic benefits to Turkey. Actively breaking an alliance with someone you're hoping to increase trade with is among the stupidest things you can do in politics.
There's a lot of crossover between EU and NATO membership, Turkey should expect a vote of no confidence from any dual member if they fail to respond to Article 5 (which is about armed attacks against member nations and has nothing to do with nuclear warfare).
If Russia attacks NATO all the american/NATO bases in Europe (and UE) will be targeted with nuclear strikes.
There will be no one to "trade with" after that, for 10 years at least.
So Turkey will betray, it's the only thing they can do if they want to avoid the strike AND having some trade partners in the "new world order"
Turkey is now necessary for the vote about Finland and Sweden partnership, you really can't count on their active intervention against Putin. Excuse my realism, but we need their vote but not to count on them in case that things go
really serious.
Starker on 27/2/2023 at 02:25
Russia deciding to commit suicide aside, the other day this happened at the OSCE meeting in Vienna, where the Austrians had invited a Russian delegation to participate:
[video=youtube;WvR9FNPI2Pg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvR9FNPI2Pg[/video]
heywood on 27/2/2023 at 18:26
The Russians have been moaning about the OSCE since the Balkan wars. At the start of last year's invasion, they threw OSCE out of Ukraine, stole their equipment, and detained their people on phony espionage charges. They certainly weren't welcome when the OSCE met in December. So it was disappointing to see Austria bring them back in to blow up this meeting. Not unexpected unfortunately, as Austria seems to be having a little bit of an identity crisis.
Tocky on 1/3/2023 at 04:50
Well there was that whole Nazi thing. Seems they haven't quite gotten over it.
demagogue on 1/3/2023 at 06:05
No, Vladimir. You are the Nazis.
demagogue on 1/3/2023 at 06:10
Not you Tocky. That's just the right reply every time they try to link their opposition to Europe to its fascistic past, which they do all the time. The Ukrainians replace the "f" in fascism with an "R" to make Rascism to describe Russia these days.
lowenz on 1/3/2023 at 08:02
Russians do not have the conception of "nazism" and "fascism" we have here, it's totally different for them
For them "fascists" are "anglo-saxon invaders" (just like for romans), it's not about ideology, it's about war praxis. They do NOT distinguish between german and british/US actual people because they're "anglo-saxon tribes" and they see them as natural enemies.
Ideology-wise russians elites ARE 100% fascists but that's not what they can admit nor are interested to realize. Or they just can call it "good fascism" (national interest above all, being the nation=state+ethnic russians+russian federation subjects).
It's why it's so important to remember that Putin acts in "perfectly rational" way being driven by Ilyin (a Mussolini great admirer) tradionalism, just like Dugin, Prokhanov and every "ruski mir" thinker/intellectual.
He's no mad, he's embodying what european fascists and german national-socialists - and US republicans - love so much: a conservative form of Napoleon BUT not with too much caesarism (deprecated by Ilyin in favor of "GOD" and as you can see Putin shows himself as a very godfearing person)
It's the "ruski mir" guided by "Vladimir Vladimirovich" acting as a regent of russian people(s) against the "satanic west" (democracy being amoral can only be a Satan tool), just like imperial Japan in the WWII. And it can only end in the same way.
Qooper on 1/3/2023 at 09:37
Imagine if he was competent. :-|
I'm not saying he isn't doing a lot of horrible damage right now. Brave Ukrainians, both soldiers and civilians, are paying with their own blood, fighting for their independence. But Putin isn't getting anything done. He wants so badly to believe his delusions are the real reality.
lowenz on 1/3/2023 at 10:32
Quote Posted by Qooper
He wants so badly to believe his delusions are the real reality.
This is what you get when you accept nationalism as state-people glue. Of course the state can murder people with no moral problem, because the state-nation being the nation the abstraction of people.
Qooper on 1/3/2023 at 10:49
Quote Posted by lowenz
This is what you get when you accept nationalism as state-people glue. Of course the state can murder people with no moral problem, because the state-nation being the nation the abstraction of people.
You can look at these things as systems only to a certain extent. People don't automatically consider important what the authorities tell them to consider important. Or maybe they do, and I could be wrong. But for instance I am a nationalist, and I want Finland to remain true to its constitution (and we're already far from that). But I consider it insanity trying to achieve this with violence and through forcing an ideology on people. Part of what I believe and consider important is the freedom to hold your own values and ideas based on your own thoughts and conclusions. If an idea is expressed, that's fine, and ideas should also be allowed a forum for respectful yet critical debate. If an idea prevents other ideas from being expressed, that's not good. What I'm trying to say is that even though I am a nationalist (and that single word doesn't fully describe the type of nationalism I mean) I would have a big problem with Finland becoming a nationalist state in the same way as what's happening in Russia.
