Vae on 29/9/2022 at 01:53
Quote Posted by RippedPhreak
On the other hand, both Biden and Victoria Nuland stated months ago that if Russia invaded Ukraine, NordStream 2 pipeline was going to be toast.
Yes, this is correct.
Biden:"[If Russia invades Ukraine], there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2...we will bring an end to it".
Reporter: "How will you do that, since the project is under Germany's control?"
Biden: "We will a...I promise you we'll be able to do that." …with a smirk on his face.
[video=youtube;OS4O8rGRLf8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8&ab_channel=C-SPAN[/video]
Starker on 29/9/2022 at 01:54
Dark Brandon strikes again.
lowenz on 29/9/2022 at 08:01
Quote Posted by Silentor
our
barons will strangle themselves for a penny
A penny? An "incident" like that can make the gas price skyrocket and so reconsider the position of Germany (and Italy).
But your
barons are arrogant enough to taunt Europe to be "without a soul" and make materialistic considerations about the gas availability......
Europe stops attritions -> they're so weak because they're so materialistic.....we don't need people like this in the russkij mir
Europe continues attritions -> they're so weak, they don't see people needs and obey their US masters without questions.....we don't need people like this in the russkij mir
That's your
barons inner ideological working (nazbol mindset). Double thinking as its best :v
But the problem is another one: why you accept
barons? People are just a tool for
barons. If not for money and power, their mindset is totally idealistic, they don't see "people", they see "glorious russkij mir" (and some thousands of dead soldiers in a specific moment of history are nothing to them! And this is precisely why the "state" - every state in principle - can be devilish inhuman ).
They fight for a platonic hyperuranic notion making you fight for your life and without any preparation!
lowenz on 29/9/2022 at 08:18
Quote Posted by Vae
Yes, this is correct.
Biden:"[If Russia invades Ukraine], there will be no longer a Nord Stream 2...we will bring an end to it".
Reporter: "How will you do that, since the project is under Germany's control?"
Biden: "We will a...I promise you we'll be able to do that." ...with a smirk on his face.
[video=youtube;OS4O8rGRLf8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS4O8rGRLf8&ab_channel=C-SPAN[/video]
The leaks are in the *OTHER* pipeline, 'cause the one they're talking never got gas in the tubes.
heywood on 29/9/2022 at 08:48
Not to mention, Nordstream 2 was killed off in the first days of the invasion. That objective was accomplished long ago.
The beauty of this stunt is that there's no obvious culprit. Anybody could have the means, but nobody appears to have a motive. So everybody jumps to their preferred conclusions and it becomes a nice little political football. Almost seems like it was meant to distract our attention from something.
lowenz on 29/9/2022 at 09:02
.....and what could be that something?
heywood on 29/9/2022 at 09:18
If I could answer that question, the stunt would have failed.
The something could be anything you want since anybody could have done it. See what I mean?
demagogue on 29/9/2022 at 09:41
On the Russian side, the motive is to cut off the gas supply as Putin threatened, but in this way because the oligarch lawyers told him that if it was an accident or sabotage not necessarily linked to Russia or the companies, like indeterminate terrorism or unknown (i.e., plausibly deniable) causes, then Gazprom can claim the force majeure provisions (unavoidable event that prohibits delivery) to get out of their contract obligations. Otherwise, if they just shut it off, they'd have to pay damages under the contracts. That's what my tingling lawyer senses bring to my mind.
On the US/NATO side, the motive ostensibly would be to force energy independence from Russian gas supply among European countries more quickly and absolutely, with some political cover for the politicians, but I don't really buy that narrative. Any narrative that involves self-harm or false flags has a higher burden, and it seems a little too high in this case, whereas the self-benefit of the force majeure argument is much easier to buy.
It could be something else altogether of course. That's my initial impressions though.
heywood on 29/9/2022 at 10:23
I saw that hypothesis on a DW YouTube clip posted above. It appealed to me at first. But the motive seems kind of suspect. Damages were unlikely to be paid anyway. And Nordstream 1 is one of Gazprom's biggest assets. It was only carrying around 20% of its capacity before it was shut down earlier this month, but if you assume friendlier days will come again, you would want to keep that asset ready. If you let the pipe fill with salt water, it could be ruined quickly. So I can't see the upside from the perspective of a Gazprom employee or investor.
And it seems like we can say that about any of the obvious parties, the upside doesn't seem to justify the potential downside risk for any of them.
So maybe another gas company did this to protect their European market growth. Maybe a hedge fund guy hired a bunch of former Seals to do this job so he could play the market swing. Maybe some country was testing a weapon, and tested it on the pipeline because it provides convenient cover. There so many possibilities, and all of them seem like a stretch.
Briareos H on 29/9/2022 at 10:41
@demagogue I think you may need to separate NATO and US intentions, in the latter case there is no self-harm I can think of. Looking long-term, in their current state of vulnerability it seems the US would benefit quite a bit from creating trouble both in EU and Russia, delaying cohesion and alliances as long as needed until they regain strength. Granted, we're very good at destroying cohesion all by ourselves, but a move from the US to force alignment towards the Atlantic cannot completely be ruled out. Removing Nord Stream II as a future point of contention (what would have happened to it 10 years in the future?) seems desirable.
That being said, I agree with you, force majeure to get out of contractual obligations seems even more simple and would go well with the classical Russian way of doing false flags, trying to pin it on the US with confidence and scorn.
