Serious Garrett storylines. - by 5tephe
Jah on 29/5/2009 at 08:09
Quote Posted by jermi
Off topic.
I'm guessing the source for this one is (
http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html) Zuckerman. If you turn that number around, it says that 15% of the swedes believe in a real, omnipotent, supernatural God. That's a huge number.
It is also stated at the top of the page that "These figures do not necessarily represent the number of people who identify themselves as "atheists."" Also the fact that they talk about "God" with a capital G makes it sound like they're referring specifically to the Christian God. I wouldn't take those statistics too seriously.
And I agree with Tail that the Builder religion appears to be the dominant one among the common folk in the City, and the Hammerites represent a particularly stringent and fanatical, Inquisition-like interpretation of it. The nobles have chapels in their mansions, which shows that you don't have to be a Hammerite or Mechanist to worship the Builder. Also, wouldn't it be rather difficult for these Orders to justify actions like hunting down pagans or arresting "sinners" to secular powers, or to collect donations for their church, if the general public thought the Builder's existence was "false and ridiculous"?
Platinumoxicity on 29/5/2009 at 09:00
What about the Smith-In-Exile?
He's the man who authorised the use of "The Eye" by the Hammerites in the old Quarter over 50 years ago. The Eye's origin was never revealed or even speculated in any texts, only it's characteristics and dangers. I think the Smith-In-Exile knew/knows quite a lot of the history of the City, and he might even know more of the origin of the Eye that the Eye knows himself. (confirmation needed) Who knows, he might actually be the smith who forged the Eye in the first place.
All we know about him that he saw the corruption of the Eye and tried to undo the damages before it was too late. He failed but survived the apocalypse of the Old Quarted and fled the City. He wrote the letters afterwards where he explained things cryptically. Nobody knows where he went and whether he's still alive or not.
He could be an interesting story element.
Jah on 29/5/2009 at 10:39
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
What about the
Smith-In-Exile?
He's the man who authorised the use of "The Eye" by the Hammerites in the old Quarter over 50 years ago.
Did he? Do the readables actually say that?
In one of his writings, quoted in one of the TDP intros, he points out the foolishness of using an artifact attributed to the Trickster, but it isn't quite clear from that what his own role was. He could have been the one responsible (meaning that in his letters, he's looking back at his own mistakes), or merely a dissident observer.
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
The Eye's origin was never revealed or even speculated in any texts, only it's characteristics and dangers. I think the Smith-In-Exile knew/knows quite a lot of the history of the City, and he might even know more of the origin of the Eye that the Eye knows himself. (confirmation needed) Who knows, he might actually be the smith who forged the Eye in the first place.
The quote in the intro movie suggests that the Hammerites were trying to use the enemy's (i.e. the Trickster's) power for their own benefit (I can't remember the exact words, but there is an analogy with cutting down trees to turn them into planks for building), so I'm pretty sure The Eye wasn't created by the Hammerites. I'd say it probably predates the Hammerites and is of either Trickster or precursor origin.
Platinumoxicity on 29/5/2009 at 11:34
Quote Posted by Jah
Did he? Do the readables actually say that?
In one of his writings, quoted in one of the TDP intros, he points out the foolishness of using an artifact attributed to the Trickster, but it isn't quite clear from that what his own role was. He could have been the one responsible (meaning that in his letters, he's looking back at his own mistakes), or merely a dissident observer.
The quote in the intro movie suggests that the Hammerites were trying to use the enemy's (i.e. the Trickster's) power for their own benefit (I can't remember the exact words, but there is an analogy with cutting down trees to turn them into planks for building), so I'm pretty sure The Eye wasn't created by the Hammerites. I'd say it probably predates the Hammerites and is of either Trickster or precursor origin.
Okay, but I think that the Eye predates the Trickster too. If the Trickster would have made it, he would have taken better care of it, and the Trickster actually contradicts his own abilities in that one. See, if the Trickster would have had the power to create an entity as powerful as the Eye, he wouldn't have had to create it in the first place. The Eye didn't call the Trickster his master (or at least we didn't hear it.) but he/it seemed to be fascinated about Garrett. The Eye didn't say a word to the Trickster when Garrett stole him/it back from the Maw, because the Eye looked down on the Trickster and thought of him as a simple-minded fool, who's power dould never last. The Eye didn't know what to think about Garrett, so he/it wanted to see what he was made of. I think the Eye still has many forgotten secrets about the City that he/it hasn't shared with anyone, and those could still be a good story element in T4. :)
Peanuckle on 30/5/2009 at 17:45
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
The Eye didn't call the Trickster his master (or at least we didn't hear it.)
Search the sound files for the Eye, and you'll find an unused track of the Eye warning his master about danger being amiss.
Platinumoxicity on 30/5/2009 at 18:55
Quote Posted by Peanuckle
Search the sound files for the Eye, and you'll find an unused track of the Eye warning his master about danger being amiss.
Yes, I know. But since it was unused, I consider it non-canon. (Pick and choose here again :) ) But wouldn't it be cool if the most powerful evil artifact would really see the master of cunning and deception as a more interesting entity than the demigod of Chaos? Very flattering for Garrett indeed. :p
jpalmer7 on 1/6/2009 at 20:19
Quote Posted by 5tephe
Perhaps the time - do we get a Star Wars like prequel series?
Perhaps the setting - Garret outside of The City?
I was thinking something along the prequel line too. The Glyph magic is beginning to fail (due to events in T: DS). The keepers use what magic they have to send Garrett back in time though a portal to 'fix' a few things to correct the future. I thought maybe bust the story line into thirds, having a a pre-T: TDP segment, a pre-T: DS segment, then the present/cleanup/coda segment.
Perhaps one story segment is that Garrett has to put the real Eye back in the Trickster's hands to take the world to the Trickster's 'wild' state, then do something with the raw Glyph/pre-Glyph magic as a task. Or maybe Garrett has to 'save' Karras, or somehow alter a younger Karas' machinations.
Back in pre-T: TDP days, weapons are limited- no fire/water crystals, though maybe they're 'discovered' or their origin is revealed, and Garrett has to do a lot more old-fashioned thieving. As the game progresses (or time passes), add the classic weapons and elements we've all grown to love.
Perhaps in this pre-T: TDP era, Garrett has to go up against the Necromancer who was responsible for unleashing the zombies. The epic battle between undead and Hammers would be interesting. :)
The Eye can also be the portal object. Garrett has to re-claim the Eye (in each 'era'?) in order to move through time.
belboz on 6/6/2009 at 07:09
The rumour is that its a moden day setting set about 1000 years after the events in thief 3, but the hammerites, and keepers, and other factions are still around but slightly more lethal.
Captain Spandex on 6/6/2009 at 07:31
The 'modern setting' rumor doesn't seem reputable.
I actually see no reason why the game has to take place in any other time frame than after 3. Just because things ended with Garrett being the One True Keeper or whatever doesn't mean it's going to remain that way. One of the main themes of Deadly Shadows was the point that the Glyphs could be rewritten. They were depicted as more than merely static. If a powerful force intervened, they could be rewritten, and during the events of TDS, they were literally changing.
You can go absolutely any direction creatively with the new game, provided that a legitimate explanation is given, and in a weird sort of way, Deadly Shadows provided for that. I wouldn't mind Garrett moving on to a new location with new factions. Or perhaps fleshing out the City a bit more, and adding various new groups, both religious and political into the fore. Just because the previous three games focused on the Hammers (and their offshoots, the Mechanists) the Pagans, and the Keepers doesn't mean that only those three groups exist.
YuSeF on 6/6/2009 at 08:23
Quote Posted by Platinumoxicity
The Builder is basically Allah,
Nice one bigot.
