ZylonBane on 3/7/2018 at 00:37
He's not talking about categories, he's talking about difficulty levels. On Normal difficulty you only have to get the objective loot. On higher difficulties you have to get it and get out with it.
Glitch speedruns are obnoxious anyway. Bounce bounce bounce warp boing warp warp zoom warp MISSION COMPLETE. Christ, WTF. May as well just hit Ctrl-Alt-Shift-End to skip the level.
Renault on 3/7/2018 at 01:11
Yeah, I was thinking the same, I'd much rather watch speedruns without using any kind engine exploits or bugs. At least you could argue there's some real skill involved there.
skacky on 3/7/2018 at 01:25
Running Thief (especially 1) requires quite a bit of player skill even with that latest discovery. You can't just pick the game up and beat the records out of the blue. Running a mission efficiently requires fast and precise play and the tricks are constantly back to back.
downwinder on 3/7/2018 at 02:58
in my view i like to see expert speed runs,you have to figure out what loot to get along way to meet goal along with other objectives,gives more freedom for different patterns on each mission and ussaly loot cant be complete by just running to main goal to end mission,side tracking is needed=you get to see different patterns for completing levels
Psych0sis on 3/7/2018 at 20:02
Hey that's me! Glad to see you all enj-
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
He's not talking about categories, he's talking about difficulty levels. On Normal difficulty you only have to get the objective loot. On higher difficulties you have to get it and get out with it.
Glitch speedruns are obnoxious anyway. Bounce bounce bounce warp boing warp warp zoom warp MISSION COMPLETE. Christ, WTF. May as well just hit Ctrl-Alt-Shift-End to skip the level.
there's always one eh
Amorphous on 3/7/2018 at 20:09
Quote Posted by downwinder
in my view i like to see expert speed runs,you have to figure out what loot to get along way to meet goal along with other objectives,gives more freedom for different patterns on each mission and ussaly loot cant be complete by just running to main goal to end mission,side tracking is needed=you get to see different patterns for completing levels
You'd think so, but in reality there is always going to be one correct route through the level and when that is found, there is no variation.
Expert runs are fun to watch, but they just take longer. There's not really any more variation than normal runs.
marbleman on 3/7/2018 at 20:27
Finding and using engine exploits to break the game as much as possible is what makes speedrunning interesting IMO. "Legit" runs done quickly would be less fun to watch. Though of course, most of the run is down to execution and eliminating minor errors.
Amorphous on 3/7/2018 at 20:39
The funny thing about "legit" runs is there's almost no way to do a glitchless run in Thief. The game is so incredibly broken that even a casual run is going to constantly be taking advantage of glitches.
If we were to try to do a glitchless run, we'd have to, for example:
1. Never jump, especially not multiple times in a row. Jumping increases your speed and there's no cap on that, which is obviously a glitch and allows you to reach unintended areas.
2. Never walk diagonally. You move faster that way, which is unintended.
Already the game is incredibly boring and tedious, and we've only taken out two glitches. You get the point.
Starker on 4/7/2018 at 00:06
As someone who watches speedruns, I feel like for me there's a big difference between exploits that speed up the player or cut a few corners and exploits that skip huge amounts of content, such as going out of the bounds of the level. They both take skill to execute, but I personally find the former much more enjoyable to watch than the latter.
TannisRoot on 5/7/2018 at 14:13
Speedrunning communities argue endlessly over what constitutes or defines a glitch and what doesn't. See the Ocarina of Time speedrunning community. There are often legitimate mechanics that can be abused to skip parts of the game (for example, rocket jumping or bomb boosting). In the case of bomb boosting in Ocarina, the glitchless category allows it for some strats but specifically bans its use for others that skip large parts of the game. Point is, each community decides their own rules and defines their own categories. Sometimes what is "fun" beats what is technically correct.
That said, I imagine speedrunning Thief on expert would be a different category of speedrunning - 100% - meaning all loot collected and all objectives fulfilled. If no glitches are allowed then the category would be 100% glitchless.
In the end, the runners will run whatever is the most fun for them so if a category is too tedious then it will be less popular.
Anyway, Psych0sis - good run.