Jarvis on 16/3/2010 at 21:22
Quote Posted by Kurshok_Warrior
LOL owned.
It does now that Captain just pwned you and you're having to change your argument lol.
Quote Posted by Kurshok_Warrior
The facts don't convince you? Unsurprising.
You're just not paying attention are you? I didn't change any arguments because I wasn't the one who made the initial assertion. I was adding secondary commentary, pointing out that Captain Spandex was focusing only on the number of entrances and exits. But the entrance and the exit only accounts for a very small portion of the level design. The sword is an excellent example from the original game:
I can't remember if you could even get in the front door. The clear "developer's path" entrance was the window. Leaving you with one (maybe two) entrances and two exits.
...but what happened when you got inside? Holy crap I got hopelessly lost the first time I played it because there were just so many different ways to go. How about the Bonehoard? It has one way in and two ways out. But that place is freaking huge! Once your in the giant catacomb there is no "path" to speak of. You just have to explore and find your way around.
Or what about the Haunted Cathedral? It had exactly 1 exit and 1 entrance. But out in the cloister you had an open environment. The only thing directing your movements was the dictation of the objects you had to collect, but honestly you didn't even have to listen to *that*.
To reiterate my point: I understand what Captain Spandex was trying to say. But allow the game itself to expand your thinking to see the games as they actually are. There were one or two interesting stages in TDS... but it simply did NOT have the kind of open freedom of either TDP or TMA. Counting entrances and exits simply doesn't capture the issue.
But, as stated...
"If you're convinced by the sort of thing, then you're welcome."
Muzman on 16/3/2010 at 21:38
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Don't take things too serious, Kurshok warrior. Usually people tend to say more about what they don't like than about what they like, which is IMHO one of the reasons for the "bad TDS talk" outweighing the good. Plus, I think many are afraid at the back of their head that making one's sympathy towards TDS public without recalling its flaws at the same time encourages the Big Bad Industry to keep the lower quality.
Or it could be that someone started a thread asking people why they didn't like Thief DS as much and people explained it to him.
Albert on 21/3/2010 at 21:16
Now that I finally get to play the game, I gotta say just this:
It's a complete farcry from what made the first two games so great. The atmosphere in this game is not only crud (I don't associate the slums of dark age Europe with the color blue, for starters :p), the AI are ugly (and not even in the but-personal-hygiene-didn't-exist-yet sorta way) and controls are also a bit on the crappy side of things in contrast to the original games.
Still, one couldn't have done a better job at attempting a thief sequel sans the creative forces behind the originals, and even still...
It's a disappointment, true, but it's better than no sequel.
New Horizon on 22/3/2010 at 12:09
Quote Posted by Albert
Still, one couldn't have done a better job at attempting a thief sequel sans the creative forces behind the originals, and even still...
Of course they could have done a better job. They simply chose to take the game in a different direction. Had they not made certain choices, and focused on being a true PC sequel, it could have been much better.
Kurshok_Warrior on 22/3/2010 at 12:44
@ Jarvis - tl;dr
Quote Posted by Albert
I don't associate the slums of dark age Europe with the color blue, for starters
No I don't think blue was invented until the late 1500's, actually.
Beleg Cúthalion on 22/3/2010 at 13:26
I think the dinosaurs invented blue skies and seas.
Of course the blue/lilac colour gets a bit annoying and soft after a while, but if you're into Dark Ages (i.e. early middle ages), you should have problems with every Thief game, especially with the Victorian and Art Deco elements of TMA.
ZylonBane on 22/3/2010 at 14:57
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
Of course the blue/lilac colour gets a bit annoying and soft after a while, but if you're into Dark Ages (i.e. early middle ages), you should have problems with every Thief game, especially with the Victorian and Art Deco elements of TMA.
Only if you're too dense to figure out that Thief isn't supposed to represent actual Earth history.
Jarvis on 22/3/2010 at 17:28
Quote Posted by Kurshok_Warrior
@ Jarvis - tl;dr
:laff:
Beleg Cúthalion on 22/3/2010 at 21:23
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
Only if you're too dense to figure out that Thief isn't supposed to represent actual Earth history.
Well of course it represents actual earth history, but not as a whole. [...] And to say something new: Otherwise most of us would have a harder time to get immersed since a completely new thing had to be created. The other way around – most people refer to Thief as something basically "medieval". Would be interesting to create a game that people consider medieval although it contains no middle age content at first sight.
crunchy on 23/3/2010 at 00:59
I've held my tongue about TDS prior to now. Personally I have found things that I like and dislike about the game and most have already been expressed by various people over the years. However, there was one thing that really annoyed me. It was the sequence of events following the Clocktower mission.
Caduca has just been found dead and Orland has accused, tried and convicted Garrett of the crime but he manages to escape. You need to make your way to Ramian's place. When you get there you find him dead and have to get to your place. Only to find a note telling you to go to the cemetry in Fort Ironwood.
So basically you are forced to go from A to B to C and finally discover that you need to go back into the very place you just escaped from, the Keeper Compound. All the while having Enforcers, City Watch and (depending upon faction status) Hammers and Pagans on your tail. I just found the whole thing tedious, pointless, poorly thought out (from a development view) and a total PITA!
