Mortal Monkey on 23/3/2010 at 03:13
I would say 'all of the above', but I wouldn't actually care about most of the above if TDS had drawn me in and suspended my disbelief. It didn't succeed. Not just because of the blue portals either.
For me, it was the audio that was a let-down, in particular the ambient music. It wasn't by any means bad, it was just bland. Compare any track from TDP/TMA vs. one from TDS (except from The Cradle, we'll come to that). If you don't realize that one of them has massive balls claws that grip your brain and inject it with pure emotion and the other one doesn't, you're one of the people who actually prefers TDS over TDP/TMA. Probably.
There's even an exception that really makes it clear: The Cradle. Sure, you had to run some stupid and contrived errands for a ghost, but I would gladly have done it in every subsequent mission if that would magically have made them equally awesome.
Sorry about punctuation/spelling/confusion/etc., I should be in bed.
DenTheef on 25/3/2010 at 02:41
I'm with Mortal Monkey all they way on this. TDS initially looked promising, but fairly soon degenerated as it became apparent how small the levels were, how microscopic the City, and worst of all the loss of rope and swimable water.
The point about audio is one I did not initially think about, but as he said, nothing comes close to what Eric Brosius managed brilliantly on almost every level of T1/T2.
He's right about The Cradle too - brilliant level, but its not Thief.
I also recall my huge dissapointment with the couple of times you encounter undead. Haunts in T1/T2 were terrifying in every way. When I bumped into that pathetic pair of clowns in TDS I was shocked - not by terror, but how they'd been trivialized. The zombies in the Gale were just as much of a let down.
Now I'll go away and lurk another couple of years.
Jashin on 25/3/2010 at 03:20
Thief 3's just fine.
Kurshok_Warrior on 26/3/2010 at 13:48
Quote Posted by Jarvis
:laff:
A T1/2 fan with a sense of humour? LOL yeah right.
Quote Posted by Mortal Monkey
Compare any track from TDP/TMA vs. one from TDS (except from The Cradle, we'll come to that). If you don't realize that one of them has massive balls claws that grip your brain and inject it with pure emotion and the other one doesn't, you're one of the people who actually prefers TDS over TDP/TMA.
Try turning the vibrator off while posting.
Vantek on 26/3/2010 at 17:23
Haha, all this furious argument makes me want to actually try and seriously play TDS to see what all this fuss is really about.
I think it should be easy to have a pretty good idea though. It's probably failed expectations, not even necessarily high expectations, but specific expectations. A lot of people (me included) loved Thief 1&2 because of, trying to put it into one word as well as I can, the atmosphere. Yes yes, yet again that nebulous thing which you just can't put your finger on. Maybe it's also the reason why the opposite side of the argument has trouble understanding - because it's so damn difficult to convey, or even understand for yourself. You just feel it, and it's either "like that", or it isn't. And apparently with T3, it just isn't.
I do think a lot of the T1&2 fans are going too far with the T3 bashing. But it's easy to see why, and I also think a lot of the T3 fans are going too far with the bashing of the T3 bashers. I think some people should realise that making video games is generally a very expensive and risky endeavour unsurprisingly dominated by sought of profit (because people or organisations who do not have that mentality usually either have nowhere near enough money to make games to begin with, or very quickly end up as such) and stop getting so disappointed when that fact leads to its expected results, but some other people should realise that the atmosphere of T1&2 is for many simply an amazing work of art, and abandonment of such a wonderful thing is simply bound to be downright disappointing even for a generally constructive mind.
CEEtheDinoman on 26/3/2010 at 17:30
Ok, I rarely post here, and i know i have no credibility, but i must speak up. This thread I have no problem with, I didn't hate TDS with the fire of a thousand suns, but I do realize it didn't live up to the glory of the original two. It still was a decent game, but it was nigh unanimously the worst of the Thief series. The OP therefore requested a list of flaws, which soon cropped up, pretty basic stuff to most I assume (How long did it take anyone to realize that the City was puny?) For the most part, this has been done in a civilized manner . . .
Quote Posted by Kurshok_Warrior
A T1/2 fan with a sense of humour? LOL yeah right.
Try turning the vibrator off while posting.
. . . and here's where I come to you, Mr. Kurshok Warrior. You seem to be very out of place here, and this thread is full of your infantile insults. I have no problem with TDS, it wasn't the best but was still enjoyable and served to provide a finale to Garrett's story. And I do not (as a minority do) believe that an enjoyment of said game makes you a consoletard with no grasp of good gameplay. I have a feeling you are endeavouring to quell that mischaracterization as well, however you are falling right in it. Perhaps if you tried to offer a list of positive features that still redeem the game, people may not write you off. As it stands, your poor social graces have merely made me see you as an overzealous and childish fanboy. But that can change . . .
P.S. A "tl;dr" will only further exaspirate your image. Best to put on those reading glasses and comment well.
Too Much Coffee on 27/3/2010 at 16:45
One of my favorite features from TDP and TMA were the mission briefing cutscenes. They were the glue that held all the missions together and were rather stylish. I always looked forward to the next one after completing each mission. They were notoriously absent in DS. I felt shortchanged. It's like Ion Storm lacked any talent that could produce them for DS in the same style, so they didn't bother. Instead they just gave us Garret's narration over text briefings on a cheap looking psuedo gothic looking screen.
Surely Eidos Montreal has enough sense to put the briefing cutscenes back in IV. I hope. :erg:
lost_soul on 27/3/2010 at 18:38
Now that is a legitimate complaint. Thinking back to the games, which form of content do you remember more? The great cut-scenes, or the narration over text? I certainly remember the cut-scenes much more than the text narrations!
I had never really thought about that before, because I'm mostly into games for the gameplay.
Albert on 27/3/2010 at 19:26
Quote Posted by New Horizon
Of course they could have done a better job. They simply chose to take the game in a different direction. Had they not made certain choices, and focused on being a true PC sequel, it could have been much better.
Of course, your also correct... But still, what did you expect them to do? It was a different studio, a different mindset, trying to make it appeal to console gamers, and they were not entirely convinced that a 3rd sequel which, in their terms, "copied" the original 2 games, would be commercially viable. They failed to make the third game sell well, and they also failed to win the fan's hearts.
So no, your correct, they should've made it a little differently, but also, your wrong in assuming that they would've gladly did things a little more to the fan bases' liking.
They where trying to fix what they saw as flaws in the old game, and naturally, they fouled it up. No need to say to me that they should have, because obviously, when you go about making a sequel to a commercially dismal series, you take the good things out of the game that made it a classic, and replace them with things that'll appeal to lazy Halo-playing dolt.
I'm not happy with what they felt they had to do, but its pointless to bicker on about it. Let's worry more about the 4th sequel.
Avalon on 27/3/2010 at 19:27
Quote Posted by Kurshok_Warrior
A T1/2 fan with a sense of humour? LOL yeah right.
Try turning the vibrator off while posting.
After long and careful analysis, I've discovered that you're an idiot with an arguing style that revolves entirely around being an asshole with little valid substance to contribute.
