Jason Moyer on 11/11/2009 at 19:36
You know, for otherwise being a great but mindless shooter, Painkiller had some of the best boss fights I can remember in a PC/FPS title.
Jashin on 11/11/2009 at 19:45
I never said it's a bad thing. I said it's a console tradition. It was born on the console and it never really progressed past its original principles.
june gloom on 11/11/2009 at 19:52
Which are?
Nameless Voice on 11/11/2009 at 20:14
Quote Posted by Jashin
Boss fight is a console tradition. I don't think it's progressed at all, anywhere. Nobody's tried to take it to the next level.
But there's a difference between a normal boss fight, where you use the abilities you've gained throughout the game to defeat a very tough enemy in combat, and a gimmicky boss fight which has an entirely different set of rules from the rest of the game - e.g. my mage character suddenly had to don heavy armour, a hammer and a shield, and jump around like a platform gamer to kill something that didn't take normal damage.
I hate gimmick endings like that. Another fine example is the ending of Doom 3, which forced you to use the silly Soul Cube to defeat an enemy who might otherwise have been a fun and challenging boss fight with normal weapons, as he was when you fought him in the original Doom.
Jashin on 11/11/2009 at 20:28
I honestly can't think of a boss that followed the "path of a hero" that challenged you to use all the abilities you've learn. Can you name some?
Pattern of attack and localized damage are the staple of a boss fight, console or pc.
Jashin on 11/11/2009 at 20:42
lol dethtoll, I keep telling myself that you just can't be that dense when people tell you explicitly and repeatedly that you need details to be convincing. what is that list suppose to do? you think pointing to a list someone else drew up for his own purpose will do you good?
you'll be ignored from now on
june gloom on 11/11/2009 at 20:46
God you suck at discussion. You asked a question, I gave you an answer.
Nameless Voice on 11/11/2009 at 21:03
Well, Gothic 2 for one. If you played as a Fire Mage, you defeated the big bad using magic, whereas if you played as a Mercenary, you defeated him by using your weapons.
Most RPGs generally follow that formula, they don't suddenly turn you into a warrior and force you to use something you hadn't really used before (e.g. a hammer as a weapon) just to fight the big bad. I think you've misinterpreted what I'm complaining about.
And linking to tvtropes is always a perfectly valid argument.
Jashin on 11/11/2009 at 21:23
linking to a list isn't an argument at all, for all intents and purposes you didn't say a word and just left the interpretation to others. if you want to point to examples you need to discuss each one, as each is different.
if you're talking about Risen's ending as a gimmick, there's more than one way to look at it. obviously if you want a challenge the boss has to be designed to accommodate for the most fleshed out combat system in the game - in risen's case that's the melee system. risen's boss isn't a weapon user so it was designed to stand apart. to have a big enemy with lotsa health that you beat on or shoot fireball at till it falls over isn't really a case for celebration. this has been discussed on gamasutra - about how any enemy would function at 100% until the last 1 hp is gone, and then it has a sudden bout of stroke and falls over - that's silly if you think about it. risen's boss is gimmicky, but it's no better or worse than gothic2's dragons.
in any case you certainly only used the best skills and some items in the game in most boss fights. I was actually thinking of something someone said, about how he wanted the boss fight to make use of all the skills and item he's collect, essentially a proof of existence for the kind of character he's developed.
