Nameless Voice on 11/11/2009 at 21:44
I didn't link to the list at all, but linking to the list showed examples of what you were talking about.
I'd rather a boss fight which is just a fight against a very tough foe than the deeply flawed boss fight in Risen any day.
Leave alone that you had to fight him with weapons, the fight itself didn't make much sense. Making the floor disappear under was just a malicious way to make the fight harder, it was an arbitrary gotcha which didn't make sense in the context, nor did it make for fun gameplay.
There was also no clear idea of what you were supposed to do, apart from being
told in onscreen help tips, and there wasn't even any feedback for your actions (not only did the boss not react to being hit, there wasn't even a collision sound, making me think I wasn't even hitting him at all).
Another reason why the boss in Risen fails is because Risen is an RPG, in which you build up your character - only to be cast into a generic mould at the end, where none of your choices or statistics (except maybe health) even matter. RPGs, in my opinion, are and should be very much about choices, both in your character development and in the decisions you make throughout the game with regards to quests and factions.
Of course, RPGs sometimes suffer from final bosses who are just too weak for a properly developed character to even care about (The Elder Scrolls games are prime examples of this).
The way that everyone operates at 100% efficiency until their last hit point causes (
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CriticalExistenceFailure) Critical Existence Failure is a very prevalent trope with few aversions.
Jashin on 11/11/2009 at 22:07
Both types are equally boring to me. Only Risen's was more reminiscent of the traditional pattern-based boss fight. The boss knelt whenever you hit him correctly so there is feedback. Either way I figured the game over as soon as I beat the inquisitor.
The thing is only a handful of
RPGs games offer truly meaningful choices. Oblivion also cast you into a generic mold at the end, the mold that held everything in the game. No cost/benefit relationship, no meaning.
The fairness thing is a multiplayer balancing issue.
It's perfectly viable in singleplayer to cast that aside and do better. You have enemies retreating in Deus Ex and even healing itself via environmental awareness in BioShock.
Nameless Voice on 11/11/2009 at 23:02
Quote Posted by Jashin
The thing is only a handful of
RPGs games offer truly meaningful choices. Oblivion also cast you into a generic mold at the end, the mold that held everything in the game. No cost/benefit relationship, no meaning.
Unfortunately true.
EvaUnit02 on 12/11/2009 at 11:20
I grew up on PC gaming and didn't own a console until later, so I'm familiar with all gambit of game types, design styles and trends, etc. One thing that I hated about bosses that you'd typically find in PC action game is that they weren't interesting, eg in FPSes you'd usually face off against a big dude (a damage sponge) that you'd have to constantly circle strafe and pump ammo into until he died.
Console style bosses which had different rules from the rest of the game were a breath of fresh air and often very memorable. The bosses in the Metal Gear Solid and Legend of Zelda series immediately come to mind.
These days, both are business as usual for me though. The former PC style I enjoy seeing in kitschy games that embrace old school sensibilities, like Painkiller.
One trend that I don't about a lot of modern games, is QTE boss fights. These are not only of the "PRESS X NOT TO DIE" cutscenes variety, but also what you see in God of War and the last Prince of Persia game. I.e. knock the enemy's health until there's a prompt to activate a QTE sequence. If you fail that that, then the boss regains some of his health.
Fragony on 12/11/2009 at 11:47
I kinda enjoy these sequences, you usually get spectacular camera-angles, TAKE THAT and once you learned a boss paterns it isn't a problem anymore. I am a bit of the masochistic type of gamer though (not that GoW and PoP aren't a breeze to play through way too easy)
EvaUnit02 on 12/11/2009 at 11:49
Quote Posted by Fragony
(not that GoW and PoP aren't a breeze to play through way too easy)
You must be thinking of the Sands of Times trilogy, PoP 2008 was insultingly easy.
Jason Moyer on 12/11/2009 at 11:49
Quote Posted by Jashin
I honestly can't think of a boss that followed the "path of a hero" that challenged you to use all the abilities you've learn. Can you name some?
Meat Circus. Although I guess it's more a boss level than a boss fight.
Koki on 12/11/2009 at 11:57
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
One thing that I hated about bosses that you'd typically find in PC action game is that they weren't interesting, eg in FPSes you'd usually face off against a big dude (a damage sponge) that you'd have to constantly circle strafe and pump ammo into until he died.
Console style bosses which had different rules from the rest of the game were a breath of fresh air and often very memorable. The bosses in the Metal Gear Solid and Legend of Zelda series immediately come to mind.
Pardon me for my lack of console-savvyness, but as far as I know none of these are FPSes.
EvaUnit02 on 12/11/2009 at 12:09
Way to miss the point. Your consistency never fails.
Koki on 12/11/2009 at 16:55
Way to miss the point.
