Fallen+Keeper on 13/2/2015 at 02:16
I thought Hammerites were making them. Thief 1 wants you to believe that everything they use, be it tools or weapons, is forged by themselves. The game makes you even forge a hammer for yourself at one point.
Then in Thief 2 you find out that they were just buying all the hammers from a merchant. :erg: So it was all bullshit all along. Kinda disappointing.
DISCLAIMER: somehow I've always managed to miss that conversation...
Arcatera on 13/2/2015 at 07:00
Well, remember the mission "Break from Cragscleft Prison". Once you reach the factory section of the facility, you must have seen that some Hammerite workers forge them and put them somewhere near that place. In Thief II, they fall from grace after the Mechanists gain power, and because of that they must have lost all the producing power they had in the first game.
Melan on 13/2/2015 at 09:30
There are also lay craftsmen like the Shemenovs. The Hammerites don't have a high opinion on them, but if you don't want to deal with a religious authority, they would be an option.
Quote:
Hammer1: hm1c1301: Heard thou? Tarius, seeking to save his purse, didst buy his new knife from the Shemenov's, not our smiths.
Hammer2: hm2c1302: How durst he! Had he no shame?
Hammer1: hm1c1303: He certainly hadst fill of shame when his blade did snap at supper.
Hammer2: hm2c1304: Hah. The Shemenov are shoddy craftsmen, and Tarius is well learnt on it.
By Thief 2 and Life of the Party, they have a huge estate in Dayport, which suggests business is booming.
Dev_Anj on 13/2/2015 at 10:19
Quote Posted by Melan
By Thief 2 and Life of the Party, they have a huge estate in Dayport, which suggests business is booming.
They built a huge business off knives that break at the dining table? The economy in the Thief games is really weird. Or maybe they improved their craft a lot.
Melan on 13/2/2015 at 10:37
It wouldn't be the first time a shoddy, mass-produced product ended up supplanting the sturdier, but more expensive craftsman's alternative. Basically, this is the story of the early industrial revolution: the triumph of cheap crap. The craftsmen knew it and hated it (along with everyone in the old order), but ended up on the losing side. Product innovation came later.
Fallen+Keeper on 13/2/2015 at 16:51
Quote Posted by Arcatera
Well, remember the mission "Break from Cragscleft Prison". Once you reach the factory section of the facility, you must have seen that some Hammerite workers forge them and put them somewhere near that place. In Thief II, they fall from grace after the Mechanists gain power, and because of that they must have lost all the producing power they had in the first game.
No, no, according to the merchant, Hammerites were buying entire stocks of weapons BEFORE the rise of the Mechanists. And now that the Hammerites were understaffed he found himself with an entire cargo of useless hammers.
So it would seem that according to Thief 2, the Hammerites were buying weapons while according to Thief 1, which was even shown in Cragscleft, they were making it themselves.
R Soul on 13/2/2015 at 17:47
They were all making hammers. In the past the Hammerites were doing the best they could but they just couldn't keep up with demand (100% of which came from other Hammerites) so they asked Kilgore to make them too. After the Mechanists arrived, demand fell but the supply fell too; the Mechanists must have taken a lot of forgers with them, as well as ownership of the best mines, so Kilgore's services were still needed.
Dev_Anj on 14/2/2015 at 13:09
Quote Posted by Melan
It wouldn't be the first time a shoddy, mass-produced product ended up supplanting the sturdier, but more expensive craftsman's alternative. Basically, this is the story of the early industrial revolution: the triumph of cheap crap. The craftsmen knew it and hated it (along with everyone in the old order), but ended up on the losing side. Product innovation came later.
That's true, but at the same time, the Mechanists introduced machines for mass manufacturing, and their tools seem to be of a very high quality. I suppose their prices were too expensive, and so the poor and middle class bought from Shemenov and the like.
Sycamoyr on 16/2/2015 at 21:36
In the TG "Assassins" mission, when you make it to
Ramirez's place, you can overhear (
http://youtu.be/YF0vxLnAYkY?t=6m31s) a conversation between two guards about how Cragscleft prison is going to be abandoned.
Guard 1: Jorred tells me the hammers are gonna close down Cragscleft.
Guard 2: Ah, he's taffing you. Where are they gonna put the poor saps they've grabbed?
Guard 1: I dunno, toss 'em into a well or something. Anyhow they just don't have enough guys no more.
Guard 2: Kinda sad, they used to be the power, now they're just a bunch of guys wishing for the old days.
Perhaps Cragscleft was one of the few places where the hammers made much of their production and profit?
Oh Garrett, after he cased the place (and presumably took out too many hammers for them to recover) they just didn't have enough Hammerites to keep the place open.
Fallen+Keeper on 17/2/2015 at 23:40
Quote Posted by Sycamoyr
In the TG "Assassins" mission, when you make it to
Ramirez's place, you can overhear (
http://youtu.be/YF0vxLnAYkY?t=6m31s) a conversation between two guards about how Cragscleft prison is going to be abandoned.
Guard 1: Jorred tells me the hammers are gonna close down Cragscleft.
Guard 2: Ah, he's taffing you. Where are they gonna put the poor saps they've grabbed?
Guard 1: I dunno, toss 'em into a well or something. Anyhow they just don't have enough guys no more.
Guard 2: Kinda sad, they used to be the power, now they're just a bunch of guys wishing for the old days.
Perhaps Cragscleft was one of the few places where the hammers made much of their production and profit?
It seems far fetched to me. Theire creed is centered around the labor and the fruits of it, so I don't think they would give up just because they've lost a furnace or two. And as long there is even one member of the Order, he would still labor, forging tools... and yes, hammers. This is what they are, after all. So seeing how Thief 2 just threw this away was really disappointing.
Quote Posted by Sycamoyr
Oh Garrett, after he cased the place (and presumably took out too many hammers for them to recover) they just didn't have enough Hammerites to keep the place open.
"Took out"... you mean "killed"? Did we play the same game? :)
