Goldmoon Dawn on 12/3/2013 at 03:57
Yep, good old suspension of disbelief.
jtr7 on 12/3/2013 at 04:11
With great heaps of precedence in that world. If everything people don't like were removed or improved to their taste, there wouldn't be much of a Thief game left. All the Ultima and D&D influence would be gone.
Beleg Cúthalion on 12/3/2013 at 11:22
Quote Posted by jtr7
Garrett would have to have something or someone to attach the stronger rope at the other end for him, so it wouldn't translate well to gaming without brutally cheating reality.
No, if I had to do it, I'd simply pull the long thin rope through the loop so that it is equally long on each side, while on one of them a thicker rope is tied to it. Then the arrow goes off, both ends of the thin rope hang down and you just pull on the one side where the thick rope isn't attached until it has passed the loop and is on the ground again. Of course it'll take two minutes which would seem like hours in a computer game, but unless there are very strong but light ropes available which don't hinder the arrow during its flight, it seems to me as the only halfway reasonably way.
theBlackman on 12/3/2013 at 18:52
Depending on the material from which your looped rope was made, Beleg Cúthalion, you would not need another heavier rope. A single stranded rope of human hair or silk can support the weight of a human. Even one of about 1/4 inch. Doubled and pulled through the loop it would be ample for climbing.
The main complaint over the years has been that the arrow would not support the weight. In this video that surmise is shown to be untrue. :)
ZylonBane on 12/3/2013 at 19:11
That video would be a lot more tolerable to watch if it weren't cut together like a smegging Mt Dew commercial.
jtr7 on 13/3/2013 at 01:38
Quote Posted by Beleg Cúthalion
No, if I had to do it, I'd simply pull the long thin rope through the loop so that it is equally long on each side, while on one of them a thicker rope is tied to it. Then the arrow goes off, both ends of the thin rope hang down and you just pull on the one side where the thick rope isn't attached until it has passed the loop and is on the ground again. Of course it'll take two minutes which would seem like hours in a computer game, but unless there are very strong but light ropes available which don't hinder the arrow during its flight, it seems to me as the only halfway reasonably way.
This doesn't account for what the arrow is sunk into. The varied and extremely forgiving uses in the games are incredibly hindered in reality. It can be sunk into soft earth, or paper-thin wood, and wood that wouldn't support a man's weight or hold up to having a real specialized arrowhead rip into it.
That video doesn't show the guy at the other end securing the ropes to something substantial, or how they got the dangling ends back to the other side after use. We don't see the arrow handling the weight of a person, and I don't believe it did. The arrow was just a delivery device, providing a temporary bridge, unless there's footage showing otherwise, which I would really hope to see. If it's a special material, then application to the Thief universe would have to provide concessions many won't allow, still thinking Thief is Medieval. We never see Garrett carrying or taking out the lengths of rope to go with the arrow, while we do see Garrett holding rope when he's holding the grappling hook. We don't see him untying or retrieving the rope or arrow or hooks, either, which all present another set of problems. In reality, under most circumstances, the ropes would have to be abandoned unless the thief had no time constraints. Oh, and I'm reminded of how the AIs never notice the ropes, so I wonder how the AIs in Thief[4] will or won't respond to the sight of a rope, or if they will react to the clang of a hook (if there is a clang), and other game-breaking issues that have had to be ignored for pacing and to keep the player from getting caught all the time like they would with silhouette-detection.
Beleg Cúthalion on 13/3/2013 at 09:09
That's why I said "Doesn't say anything about how much pulling weight can be attached to the arrow tip [...]" earlier. Plus, @theBlackman, the bow in the video is only used to get one end of the rope to a more distant place. You can clearly see that they're using a different rope to swing afterwards. I wonder, though, why they didn't use that mini helicopter (to be seen in 2:59 and 3:06ff) that carried the camera for the job... would have worked as well, but probably looked less spectacular.
Peanuckle on 13/3/2013 at 17:50
So would we all prefer to have rope arrows in T4, or gecko gloves?
pavlovscat on 13/3/2013 at 18:19
Definitely gecko gloves! I've chased those little boogers around the house trying to get to them before the cats do. But only if I get gecko speed with them. :cool:
jtr7 on 14/3/2013 at 00:47
I'll take those ol' ropes, with their own mooring device, so I can make climbing points without needing walls or something to hook around, but also for scaling walls that are there, where reinforcement beams, joists, eaves, window sills and frames, planters, wooden platforms, and tree branches, for examples, jutting out a little or a lot, or even just exposed within the vertical plane. Increased
horizontal navigation in the absence of walls is also increased with the ol' ropes, as long as there is anything above to attach to. A jump over an open space may be impossible but made possible by having a rope to leap out to to divide the leap into smaller manageable distances. The rope arrows, as they were, created their own vertical climbing surface and mooring point with a bit of wood or soft earth, and TDM is well in the ballpark of how I'd hoped to see them improved. If Garrett can just climb other ropes, vines, trees, posts, trellises, nets, shrouds on ships, fresh woven webs of huge spiders (if they exist), guy lines, cables, pipes, railings and most fences, and chains as well, like people can without gloves, all aside from wall and rock face surfaces, it'd be a long-awaited improvement.
This is a good example of why I'd prefer the ropes had little to do with our real world. They would allow this kind of thing to happen. Eliminating the magic and necessity for the potential attachment surfaces belonging to the elemental plane of Earth, people wonder and hope for the day when they can do this in a so-called Thief game:
Inline Image:
http://www.thief-thecircle.com/fanworks/art/castiello/6.jpgIt's come up so often in past discussions, and I always think of Mortal Kombat--"Come over here!"
