Yakoob on 15/9/2013 at 17:46
Henke ;) ?
That was my point, as thin as it is - there is a small difference between "mutation" and "selection" with former being entirely random (well, as far as we can tell) and the latter much less, accounting for the survival of the fittest effect.
I guess I needn't have gone into that and should have just said - while most evolution has a purpose or is beneficial, not 100% of it is. What's the evolutionary reason for albinos? There isn't much. We still get them. Not because they are advantageous, but they just didn't get "selected out" for some reason.
Sense of awe could very well be in the same basket.
faetal on 15/9/2013 at 18:52
Ah balls - sorry, I'm wall to wall with thesis writing at the moment, so don't take it personally. Normal service will be resumed when I'm done.
I'm seriously fried most of the time.
Albinism isn't universal, so can't be compared with awe. Variation exists within species, not all of it can be considered "end result" and exists simply because it is recessive enough not to affect selection. Awe exists in all healthy people. Awe motivates us in numerous ways. I'd be shocked if it was just a benign feature.
june gloom on 15/9/2013 at 19:00
Quote Posted by NuEffect
Why add the inflammatory statement?
It is not inflammatory. What's inflammatory is the childish and uninformed post that statement was in response to.
Stop trying to pick a fight. I won't let you suck me into the Subjeff Vortex again. This is a good thread and you should be ashamed for trying to ruin it based on one little thing I said. You're acting like Zygoptera. Grow up.
SubJeff on 15/9/2013 at 19:09
Whatever man.
Quote Posted by Yakoob
What's the evolutionary reason for albinos? There isn't much. We still get them. Not because they are advantageous, but they just didn't get "selected out" for some reason.
Albinism isn't selected out because, imho, it doesn't confer enough of a disadvantage that it's detrimental enough.
faetal on 15/9/2013 at 19:20
Simpler than that, it's because it's recessive. Recessive stuff can lurk around doing nothing most of the time, so there isn't any great pressure to remove it unless it's common and has significant morbidity.
SubJeff on 15/9/2013 at 19:53
That too.
There are plenty of recessive disorders that do have have significant effects on mortality (cystic fibrosis, sickle cell disease) that are still around so it can't just be related to the detrimental nature of it (or not), I agree.
Then again this is further complicated because single allele inheritance of CF and SC potentially confer some benefit, don't they?
faetal on 15/9/2013 at 22:22
Sickle cell is a notable exception, since it confers some resistance to malaria, so has an evolutionary benefit in some regions where the benefits outweigh the risk. Other recessive diseases just hang around because they aren't prevalent enough to seriously effect reproductive success. That gene for CF will mostly end up hiding out in healthy people. I can't imagine any evolutionary benefit to CF, it's just horrific and before modern medicine, was more a less a childhood death sentence.
[EDIT] It's a shame DDL isn't chiming in, because I seem to remember muscular dystrophy being his schtick, so anything I have to say about recessive disease, he could probably say a lot more effectively.
SubJeff on 15/9/2013 at 23:43
I believe that there is a theory that CF trait, like SC trait, confers some defence against TB and suchlike.
Nicker on 16/9/2013 at 01:59
I would like to suggest that religion is the convergence of several distinct but interrelated human concerns.
Two have been mentioned, social cohesion and explaining phenomena. A third is the individual human ego.
Humans are aware of their own mortality, not just in an animalistic survival sense, though we possess that as well, but in an abstract sense. It is not just the death of our bodies but the extinguishing of our identity which fills humans with dread.
When confronted by its own mortality, our ego is overwhelmed. It cannot believe that it is finite or, for that matter, that it is not an extra special part of the universe but just another creature).
The ego struggles desperately to find justification for and mechanisms to effect its continuation after death. Virtually all religions provide solace for these two fears, that we are common and that we die. It is essential that they fulfill the explanatory function, to give their mythologies credence, but it is incidental that they reflect the innate need for stable hierarchies, constructed to reflect our species' social instinct and the given culture that the religion arises in.
You are a special individual, you are part of a chosen population and you will live forever. Those are pretty much universal religious dogmas.
The rest is window dressing.
Yakoob on 16/9/2013 at 02:02
Alright so albino was poor example but...
Quote Posted by faetal
Recessive stuff can lurk around doing nothing most of the time, so there isn't any great pressure to remove it unless it's common and has significant morbidity.
This could apply to sense of awe too (minus bein recessive) tho, which is my point. Just because its not detrimental enough to get selected out doesn't mean it's necessarily beneficial either
