Oliwerko on 1/11/2008 at 22:56
I guess the title did not put it straight, so I'm going to explain.
I played T1 and T2 many times and I totally admire these games (esp. TDP) as one of the best PC games made so far. No other game has so deep and exciting atmosphere and made me feel what I feel when playing TDP/TMA.
You know what I'm talking about. All those heartbeats when trying to imagine if you were in the training library balconies, or opening the "beyond red door" doors. These games are full of these moments.
I remember when I was about 12 years old playing The Sword. The atmosphere totally got me. The spiral room, the upside-down rooms, the space rooms. This mission was absolutely full of secrets making me think of them days and nights. And not only this one. The whole TDP has some kind of this feel that is so hard to explain. The vintage graphics along with the architecture makes every single "secret" thing so, so unique. I love it. Absolutely.
Thief series has got many many "unexplainable" things. Not only in the twisted missions, but for example Bafford's, it's totally normal, except for some details (upside down furniture in one room etc). I always was, and still am fascinated by these things, which, in fact bring the atmosphere I like so much.
But to my point. I know it's good not to know everything (the feeling goes away as you open the beyond red door, or as you jump on the balcony), but I would like to know more, it's natural, everyone wants to know more :)
I have read the guide to TDP/TG strange and unusual, and I totally liked it.
Does anyone here know of anything similar?
I would like to know some lore/background info about the Thief series as a whole, about the missions, why there are upside down rooms, etc etc. I hope you get what I mean. I assume there is no such info and everyone has to understand it his/her way (and this creates the atmosphere I mentioned).
But....you never know....
So, can anyone help me with getting some mission background info and the Thief series lore/general information?
Also, feel free to share your nostalgic/atmosphere thoughts.
Herr_Garrett on 2/11/2008 at 13:10
Yes... I have the same feeling exactly. And that feeling otherwise I get only while reading books. Three authors' books, or rather, works, to be exact. One is Tolkien, the other is Seven Erikson and the third be G.R.R. Martin.
The feeling that there is a huge yawning gap of time behind these current events... That the stories we know are just the very surface of a vast sea of stories, that there are so many details to be filled, legends and myths to be told; that there are explanations somewhere...
I mean, all right, it still just a game, but the concept of its world... You see, the games in themselves kick ass, to be sure, they are one (three) of a kind, but it's still the world, the stories, the characters that make them so captivating. There are a thousand questions to be asked, and you can hope that the answers are out there. Even if they aren't:)
Oliwerko on 2/11/2008 at 15:10
Quote Posted by Herr_Garrett
There are a thousand questions to be asked, and you can hope that the answers are out there. Even if they aren't:)
Well said.
It's like trying to understand Lynch's movies. People are used that at least the game designers know what is what. Thief is exceptional in this. You have door that can't be explained or unlocked. You have keys that don't unlock any door. And you hope someone will come and tell you "well, behind these door is... and this key is....". But I guess no one knows this. Not any player, nor the level designer. And that makes the game have this creepy mysterious atmosphere.
Thor on 2/11/2008 at 15:44
Hehe. The upside-down rooms are to make it seem more like an old man's nightmare, like Constantine imho was :>
Also, in Lost City the lights turning on in every room i go on a certain building creeped me out a bit at start. Then i made the decision to smash everything in my way. Was the right call :>
Also, one of the most interesting thing is, that Fire arrows don't care one bit about any Gravity law and does the biggest disrespect to Newton (if thats how it's written in Latvian). :D
sNeaksieGarrett on 2/11/2008 at 22:22
Ha, you're right about the fire arrow thor.. It never really occurred to me the anti-gravity properties of it, but I guess you just have to take it as a magical arrow that would not fit in our real world.
Anyway, I'm sure jtr7 would come here and discuss lore and whatever else with you.:D A lot of information can be found if you take the time to read books/scrolls in the games themselves, or listen to certain conversations. For example, a player finds out in TDP during Undercover that there is some sort of Baron who is corrupt at that point and time, and how thieves "betray their own." (taken from a Hammerite in Undercover.):) Some really fascinating thief lore is during Down in the Bonehoard. For instance, the [insert leader's name here]* group's downfall in the bonehoard. You learn about what happened to the group, and that there was actually another fellow who came before them, but died in search of the Mystic's Heart I think it was.... Also, there was Cutty talking about bonehoard as well I believe.
Quote Posted by Oliwerko
Not only in the twisted missions, but for example Bafford's, it's totally normal, except for some details (upside down furniture in one room etc).
Huh?:confused:
Though your question seems to be quite vague, and I'm not sure how we can help you. Is there some sort of specific thing you want to know? For example, what happened in Old Quarter?
I should remember the dude's name, but it escapes me at the present moment. :grr:*
jtr7 on 2/11/2008 at 22:55
Felix? He don't look so good.
Bafford's was "normal," just like the first few missions (ACT I, preparing you for what's to come) for each game are normal, 'cause Garrett's just trying to live his Master Thiefy lifestyle, and then he gets caught up in someone else's schemes. But there's no room in Bafford's with upside down furniture. There's a room with overturned furniture, 'cause it's being used like an attic. :p
Yeah. I quite enjoy trying to fill in the gaps the devs created or left for us, but I find that what most people want to know does have an answer, even if it makes more questions.
The Bonehoard Taffers:
Felix
Sutter (not the Thieves' Guild Sutter)
Marcus
Dranko
...and the infamous Adolpho, who had been there before them, and was later found dead, as noted by Felix.
Cutty knew about the Horn of Quintus, and then Nammon got ahold of a map and told Cutty he planned to try for the Horn upon escaping Cragscleft--which he failed to do.
sNeaksieGarrett on 2/11/2008 at 23:32
Felix! That's it.... Can't believe I forgot.:tsktsk:
Anyway, I should be more clear on my "huh." I saw that he wrote there was some upside down furniture. I said "huh" because I don't have a clue what he's talking about. I've played bafford's a trillion times and i don't recall a room with upside down furniture.
That's it, Adolpho. Thanks again.
Oliwerko on 3/11/2008 at 06:13
Thanks for input guys.
It may be that I am mistaken about the furniture, but if I remember correctly, there are stairs that lead to the two small round rooms (towers?) from one of the main foyer-kind rooms (with the blue pillars and benches). When you are going in the hallway towards the stairs there are a narrow "holes" in the walls on the both sides. To the left, there's nothing in the room behind the "window" and to the right, furniture hangs from the ceiling.
I am not sure though, I'm gonna check it today.
What specific I wanted to know? It's hard to explain. For example, I only partially understand Constantin's mansion. Why did he build it this way? He wanted a maze, or what? I totally love the mission for its twistedness, but that is also that makes me kind of lost.
sNeaksieGarrett on 3/11/2008 at 16:18
Hmm, if I understand correctly, I believe these round rooms are the ones that have (well at least one of them does IIRC) a gold vase on a table in the middle. As far as the slits, I would consider them windows of a sort, but I'm not clear on which part of the building you mean. Perhaps if you could show me a picture, that would be cool. Or, tell me where to go in the level and I'll go find it.:)
Yeah, I'm not fully clear on Constantine's either, but if I remember right, he used some sort of magic to cause certain rooms to be upside down. Of course, you have to remember that constantine isn't just a human so maybe he just likes having twisty rooms.
Here's some information you may not know about the thief series:
- I found out recently, thanks to jtr7's posting of an old video report, that thief:the dark project used to be an RPG before they decided on it being a "first person sneaker." Not only that, but it used to not even be called "thief: the dark project."
- Looking Glass Studios used to be called Looking Glass Technologies back in 1997. I always thought it was LGS. Go figure.:erm:
- Thief 3 was done by Ion Storm, but I know at least one Dev from thief 1/2 helped on the project. What's interesting here is that Ion Storm also went bankrupt after making thief 3.
- Thief 2's missions were built first, then came the storyline.
- Thief 2 has code in the executable (and some code in dromed) for multiplayer. Apparently LGS was working on making thief 2 multiplayer, but scrapped it due to time constraints or something.
And I'm sorry if you know any of this, it's just I'm throwing out any kind of information i can think of sense your question is kind of vague. Then again, maybe this will help others out there searching for more information.:)
Thor on 3/11/2008 at 17:03
Quote Posted by sNeaksieGarrett
Anyway, I'm sure jtr7 would come here and discuss lore and whatever else with you.:D A lot of information can be found if you take the time to read books/scrolls in the games themselves, or listen to certain conversations. For example, a player finds out in TDP during Undercover that there is some sort of Baron who is corrupt at that point and time, and how thieves "betray their own." (taken from a Hammerite in Undercover.):) Some really fascinating thief lore is during Down in the Bonehoard. For instance, the [insert leader's name here]* group's downfall in the bonehoard. You learn about what happened to the group, and that there was actually another fellow who came before them, but died in search of the Mystic's Heart I think it was.... Also, there was Cutty talking about bonehoard as well I believe.
Ohh yeah. I love reading about some failed expeditions too. I also had a hope some of them were alive hiding somewhere so i could chat with them. But that's not what is designed in Thief - no interactive "human" contact with anyone.
That makes me think of a thing i'd like added in Thief IV - some minor RPG elements like meeting/speaking with someone by yourself (choosing for a few answers would be fine for me - no need to overdo it)
