Yandros on 26/5/2016 at 18:32
While ConvMaster is an awesome tool, it only helps with the scripting of the conversations themselves. There are still many other time-consuming steps required: writing the lines, finding voice actors, getting and post-processing the recorded lines, writing the schemas, finding the right motions to use, making custom AI if needed... and if it's an in-game cutscene involving the player and not just a casual conversation between two characters, there's rigging up fadeins and outs, teleporting the player and AI around if needed, limiting player movement, and doing subtitles if you want 'em. There are eight such player cutscenes in Waterfront Racket, which is one of the many reasons it took us 10 months to do.
Renault on 26/5/2016 at 18:41
Quote Posted by R Soul
I think this discussion is better off in the Editors' Guild.
Disagree on that. Abysmal's OP really didn't bring up anything technical, and this discussion seems more geared towards what player prefer to see in missions.
R Soul on 26/5/2016 at 18:50
Quote Posted by Yandros
There are still many other time-consuming steps required: writing the lines, finding voice actors, getting and post-processing the recorded lines, writing the schemas, finding the right motions to use, making custom AI if needed...
You are right of course.
Quote Posted by Brethren
Disagree on that. Abysmal's OP really didn't bring up anything technical, and this discussion seems more geared towards what player prefer to see in missions.
My reasoning is that it's FM authors who need to be reminded of this.
nickie on 26/5/2016 at 18:54
I was about to say the same thing. Besides, if it is something (slightly) technical, I don't think it's a bad thing for players to know how difficult some things can be to implement.
Ambient sound is more important to me but I enjoy conversations and readables, possibly in equal measure.
For the question, and Dahenjo kindly having pointed out that I'm old rather than getting on a bit, I can't think offhand of any particular mission that has truckloads of conversations.
Edit. R Soul got in there first. I'd agree that FM authors need to be aware but most players don't go to EdGuild whereas many authors come here, so maybe authors won't get a broad spectrum of opinion if the discussion is confined to Editors' Guild.
yxlplig on 26/5/2016 at 19:02
I have to disagree with the OP on this. Like anyone, I do enjoy a good guard conversation, but overall I do not like missions where Garrett is interacting with other characters during gameplay (Mission X, the Brother Murus fetch quests in Return to the Haunted Cathedral etc).
I think Thief is at it's best when it is entirely player driven, antisocial, and voyeuristic. Of course some overheard conversations are compatible with that style of mission design, but I wouldn't say they are especially important. I also don't think they are a more convincing world building tool than readables. It's a little contrived that people always say useful things when Garrett is in earshot of them. Not to mention they slow down gameplay. Reading something is so much faster than listening to it.
downwinder on 26/5/2016 at 19:27
some of my most fav missions are all alone,and i never felt it was lifeless
skacky on 26/5/2016 at 19:47
Every mission would have conversations if it weren't such a pain to do.
Renault on 26/5/2016 at 19:58
Correct me if I'm wrong (because I've never done it), but isn't the biggest pain just recording voices that don't sound like complete ass once they're in the game?
yxlplig on 26/5/2016 at 21:10
Quote Posted by Abysmal
Then I'm not sure you understand why Thief was such a breakthrough release back in its day. It wasn't just because it was a sneaker; it was the entire delivery.
I still think your topic title is too strongly worded. For example, I don't think anyone has ever played Disorientation and thought that it really could have used more talking. I don't think Disorientation would be even 5% better if it had more npc dialogue. And I'm not making this argument in defense of the fm authors' work, I just think you are overstating things a little. There are many detailed FMs that tell their story very well with readables, the architecture, the types of objects lying around, the ambients and so on. All of which don't bring the gameplay to a screeching halt I would also point out.
Even if it were a trivial matter to add voices, I'd still prefer conversation to be used sparingly and for them to be very short. I'm trying to recall how many of the OMs have conversations in them, and I'm having a hard time remembering any of the non funny ones. They are not an important part of the game to me, although I'm sure many people don't share my preferences on this.
