ToolFan2007 on 24/8/2004 at 14:09
Quote Posted by Aditya
But Black Thief is working on each mission one by one replacing everything possible, banner-lamps-windows-... to make it look and feel like T1/2...over-riding the T3's intended look & feel. I won't ever go for anything like this.
Agreed with that.
This reminds me alot of when Radiohead changed their musical direction with their Kid A album. We had people complaining because they dared to evolve, and that they should go back to their old roots. With Thief and Thief 2 you have all the time in the world to create fan missions with those old graphics. Thief 3 still has plenty of mystical and mysterious elements with the Pagans, Kurshok and weird Hammerite magic. I love it.
The problem is when you have such a great emphasis in storyline and style with the first Thief games, there's always going to be a difference or conflict when a new developer takes it over.
I personally cannot see the old textures being used very well with bump mapping, as I think Thief 3 over-uses bump-mapping since there is so much of it. It looks beautiful, in it's own style, but it will look conflicting with old graphics. It's not going to look right.
New Horizon on 24/8/2004 at 14:39
Quote Posted by Aditya
Established reality?! More prefect phrase would be "indivisual perception". Changing the Hammer windows to old school, as shown in the currect version feels really inconsistent with other high details, IMO. I once curiously tried to use high-res T1 texture pack, in which some things were like T2, and it looked really odd even though the Engine was same. Same rule applicable here.
Hammerites splitted into Mechanists, now reuniting back, they must have decided to re-texture thier windows! (ofcourse this a wild guess) but my point is, Things evolve. Its not a Thumb rule something has to remain the same 10 yrs down the line, especilly the Art direction in games. Then again, not evrything has changed, so I guess its very much balanced in the current way. Making some textures high-res is very much appreciated, like the wall-paintings etc. But Black Thief is working on each mission one by one replacing everything possible, banner-lamps-windows-... to make it look and feel like T1/2...over-riding the T3's intended look & feel. I won't ever go for anything like this.
I agree to ToolFan2007's suggetion that one should release 2 texture packs, one mere a high-res one, enhancing the current beauty and other for nostaligics, replacing current one's. (the best fro them obviously would be the T3 mod in Dark engine, which seems a posibilty in the light that T3 SDK isnt going to happen)
I'm getting a little annoyed with having "personal/ individual perceptions" shoved down my throat. It honestly feels like you have some personal vendetta to undermine everything I say. For the record, yes...things evolve and personally I could care less, it's a bloody game.
What my eyes see is not a personal perception...it's visual perception and unless I'm color blind or otherwise visually impaired..(which I may very well be from 3 years in tech support)..I think I saw the same things others saw in the art direction of the previous games.
Wanting to see some of the older style textures updated to higher resolution and popped into Thief 3, yes, that is a personal preference. They are not simply the old textures dropped into the game...they are hi-res versions in the original style. That those changes would add continuity between the 3 games is a fact. If I were to go to sleep here in my quaint little modern city and suddenly wake up in London England...yeah, I would definately notice the change in continuity....nothing to do with personal or individual perceptions.
For that matter, rather than petitioning here, bitching and complaining about it, DON'T use it. It's not going to change YOUR game, nobody is reaching inside your computer and swapping things out. This is for those who are interested in it. As I am. We know some people are opposed, so for goodness sake, stop beating it into the ground already. The horse is dead.
Aditya on 24/8/2004 at 15:25
Quote Posted by New Horizon
I'm getting a little annoyed with having "personal/ individual perceptions" shoved down my throat. It honestly feels like you have some personal vendetta to undermine everything I say.
No seriosuly thats not the case. We are just having opposing views and expressing it here, so its portraying like I am opposing u personally.
Quote Posted by New Horizon
If I were to go to sleep here in my quaint little modern city and suddenly wake up in London England...yeah, I would definately notice the change in continuity....nothing to do with personal or individual perceptions.
That's far fetched. Only reason why I said its personal perception, coz some do not feel any need to change with the current design but others are not okay with it , essentially making this thing "personal".
Quote Posted by New Horizon
For that matter, rather than petitioning here, bitching and complaining about it, DON'T use it. It's not going to change YOUR game, nobody is reaching inside your computer and swapping things out. This is for those who are interested in it. As I am. We know some people are opposed, so for goodness sake, stop beating it into the ground already. The horse is dead.
Ofocurse I am not using it. And neither this is bitching or personal attack. This is an open forum where we r free to debate and put our views. Its not at all my intension to go personal. Finally, I will continue to express myself on the things that intersts me. :thumb:
New Horizon on 24/8/2004 at 15:36
Quote Posted by Aditya
No seriosuly thats not the case. We are just having opposing views and expressing it here, so its portraying like I am opposing u personally.
That's far fetched. Only reason why I said its personal perception, coz some do not feel any need to change with the current design but others are not okay with it , essentially making this thing "personal".
Ofocurse I am not using it. And neither this is bitching or personal attack. This is an open forum where we r free to debate and put our views. Its not at all my intension to go personal. Finally, I will continue to express myself on the things that intersts me. :thumb:
Okay, I see where you're coming from. It did feel like a personal finger pointing rant though, and I do appologize for reacting so emotionally...it's rather uncharacteristic of me to do so. No hard feelings I hope. :)
BlackThief on 24/8/2004 at 15:41
hm, didn't expect such a discussion about the thief1/2 style textures - I hope you guys don't forget - I am not making ONLY thief1/2 style textures !
I just do them for some things, that look IMHO not as good as the old ones from thief1/2. Maybe I should make a seperate pack, without these thief1/2 style textures - the other textures, like the high-res guards look similar to the original ones, they just have a better looking uniform - that's at least what I think ;)
Same thing with the banner - the original ones look IMHO like paper or silk and not like a medival banner....that's why I made my more structured version.
New Horizon on 24/8/2004 at 15:49
Hi BlackThief,
I am having some troubles installing your texture set. When I follow the instructions it says to copy the contents of the zip file into the Thief 3 folder. For me that is Thief Deadly Shadows. If I try to drop in the entire contents of the zip it tries to overwrite my Content folder, which is probably not good. Yet is I just drop the texture folder inside the Thief Deadly Shadows folder I get an error when trying to run the .bat file.
This is the error I get:
Error while trying to open file [CONTENT\T3\Maps\Castle1.ibt
Perhaps I am not putting the files in the correct place?
DeepOmega on 24/8/2004 at 15:59
Applying the normal mapping to the textures won't be easy, unless you can get the T1/2 textures to line up with the T3 ones. Calculating normals needs either a 3D model, or some sort of crazy mind that can paint vectors in colors. I can't even wrap my brain around the idea of being able to paint an RGB representation of vectors =P.
BlackThief on 24/8/2004 at 16:02
@ New Horizon
well it does not overwrite your content folder - it doesn't override anything. that's just because the folder has the same name - if you don't believe me, simply copy the files of the PCTextures\Dynamically Loaded folder in my zip into the PcTextures\Dynamically Loaded folder in your Thief 3 installation.
Then you have to copy the files Patchit.exe, Mission1-Castle.bat, Deinstall_CastleTextures.bat, Mission1-Castle.cfg and Wiederherstellen-Castle.cfg into your folder, called Thief Deadly Shadows.
Otherwise the installer doesn't work
New Horizon on 24/8/2004 at 17:04
Quote Posted by BlackThief
@ New Horizon
well it does not overwrite your content folder - it doesn't override anything. that's just because the folder has the same name - if you don't believe me, simply copy the files of the PCTextures\Dynamically Loaded folder in my zip into the PcTextures\Dynamically Loaded folder in your Thief 3 installation.
Then you have to copy the files
Patchit.exe, Mission1-Castle.bat, Deinstall_CastleTextures.bat, Mission1-Castle.cfg and Wiederherstellen-Castle.cfg into your folder, called Thief Deadly Shadows.
Otherwise the installer doesn't work
Ahhh, got it now. I hadn't understood the instructions properly.
Thanks for the help. :)
BlackThief on 24/8/2004 at 17:37
well normally you just have to copy the whole content of the zip into your TDS folder - the message from windows, that files, which might have the same name in that folder will be overwritten is normal and you don't have to worry about it. no files will be overwritten using the installer.
