some words i was wondering about...

vforvegard on 17/9/2007 at 10:12

i was wondering what the following expressions mean:
Nudging
Banner Transmigration
Hooking of AI with boxes (?)
Barrel Polka Dancing

i think some of them, if not all, are related to "bugs" in the dark engine...
i have seen them in use around the forums (wich, by the way is teriffic:D ).
so, anyone know some of them?

nicked on 17/9/2007 at 11:15

i think nudging is where you push an AI forwards by walking into them at the right time during their idle animation?

Esme on 17/9/2007 at 11:32

I think Banner Transmigration is a ghosting technique if you have a corridor concealed by a banner then ordinarily you need to slash the banner with your sword to proceed, which busts the ghost attempt, using banner transmigration techniques can get you through the banner without damaging it

I think it's a combination of leans and moves, the dark engine isn't too exact with Garretts position and in certain circumstance you can get an error in position which puts Garretts centre on the other side of the banner and you are through

also theres a trick with doors or banners using rope arrows where there's wood immediately above the obstacle, fire the rope arrow straight up as close to the door as poss, climb the rope facing the obstacle and turn round to the other side of the rope passing through it in the process, then dismount, this will occasionally get you past without opening or damaging the obstacle, occasionally it will make you stick halfway though

DJ Riff on 17/9/2007 at 12:47

Hooking of AI with boxes — you can block AI's passage with boxes. For example, you can block someone in a room, stacking boxes in a doorway. Try to block hammerites in Undercower — you'll see what I mean.

Barrel Polka Dancing — You can push a barrel, running into it, stepping back, running into it again. It's considered as an engine quirk, because it does not provide any sound (compare with T3), and AI does not notice that barrel is moving.

theBlackman on 18/9/2007 at 02:58

Regarding the barrels. Some will move and can be used to block doors etc. The explosive ones can be shifted to a desired location (crouch and push it) and then exploded with a flare or Fire arrow when the beasties come by.

Transmigration is, as stated, a technique that will let you reach through a banner, or pass through it.

Peter Smith, Sneak and clayman (EIDOS forums) perfected the maneuvar about three years ago.

Those boxes that are solid to you can be stacked to block AI from reaching an area. They can also be used to make staircases to unlimited height. Check the threads on the "Unusual". There are some amazing things being done with patience, and skilled use of Garrett's moves.

To move an AI who is blocking a passage, get as close to them as you can from behind. When the AI shuffles its feet, Walk into it and keep the pressure on. They will eventually move, inches at a time, and you will be able to squeeze past them. The best example is in "Life of the Party". The AI guarding the stairs in the foyer, just before the tower with the archers, will stand near the door. You can sneak into the room un-noticed, but can't sneak past behind him to get to the door. If you get right tight on his ass, then lean as he shuffles his feet, he will move enough to let you sneak past. This is the same room that has the hidden access to the Astronimer's attic.

Jarvis on 18/9/2007 at 03:47

I like ghosting, but this sort of ghosting seems so counter-intuitive to me. To me, the alluring part of ghosting is the idea of moving through a place and leaving no evidence of your presence. It's psychological warfare. It's also an idea that exists outside of the actual game world. It requires some level of imagination and role-playing.

Blocking AI passage with boxes? Pushing them aside inch by inch? In a realistic environment that wouldn't work at all. Not if your goal is to be totally undetected.

I praise the community for coming up with such off the wall solutions to seemingly impossible (self-imposed) problems, and I also praise their tenacity in the patience necessary for some of these feats.

However, any jerk can pull a tapestry aside with out harming it. Slash the banner, and in your mind you know Garrett just pulled it aside to reveal the passage. So there is an unmovable AI in your way that you can't ghost past? Knock him out, drop him in a bed or under a table, and pile a few empty and full bottle around him. In your mind you know Garrett poured rum all over the guards face and shirt.

Video games are limited, but the imagination is not. Don't use this as a way to cheat yourself of the ghosting experience, as there are often many solutions to one problem. We all know that there are occasional impossible situations in ghosting. I just have a hard time accepting "nudging" and the like.

theBlackman on 18/9/2007 at 04:16

Quote Posted by Jarvis

[...]but the imagination is not. [...]

I like "ghosting" and it is my preferred method, as is "use no equipment" other than lockpicks.

But, you said it yourself. And are quoted above. That's the reason that use of the crates, barrels, nudging and other techniques came to be. Imagination also gets you to to areas of the map that you/me/we would not ever see. The tops of the towers at Ramirez's for example. Ever been there?

Not the roof by the balcony, but the tops of the tower to the far right of the main entrance. Just one example of places to go that are reachable with a rope or two, or a crate or two. Or climbing back up from the water pool below the Burrick caves in Bonehoard. The one that leads you to the stash of fire arrows and the trapped room. Well placed rope arrows will allow you to climb the pit from the pool and up to the cave where you started.

One of the fun things about THIEF is the fact that you can think outside the box and frequently out smart the game designers and the engine.

Imagination is the key, application is the extension of that imagination.