MH.TheFreak on 26/8/2007 at 18:31

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Bethesda? I think, they are currently developing Fallout 3, which appears 2008? :confused:

Moi Dix Mois on 26/8/2007 at 20:49

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Yeah it was.



No it didn't.

See how opinions work like that?

edit - for clarification: I think Bethseda are an awful game developer with no ability to create anything approacing a compelling storyline, atmosphere or even a game mechanic that works well (level scaling, stat based or 'dice rolling' combat in a First Person Game, to name a couple of examples) and are overly reliant on their ingenious little community to make their games workable or enjoyable.

Put put this into some sort of context I do think Bethseda excel at making their 'construction sets', in the same way id software excel at making game engines. I got hours of fun out of Morrowind - after I had modded it out the arse.
I would hesitate to trust either of these companies to make a game like Thief that thrives on the strength of its writing, its visual style and the atmosphere it creates for the player.

Moi Dix Mois on 26/8/2007 at 21:34

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Hello?

Once I had installed Wyremash, Level List Merger, Script Enhancer, Graphic Enhancer, FPS Optimiser, Complete Morrowind, PirateLord's Creatures, Animal Behaviour, MCA, Economy Adjuster, Majicka Regen, Great House mods, Alchenmy balance, all of the fix packs I could find, and countless more NPC packs I managed to get a lot of fun out of Morrowind.
Same story with Oblivion.

That's great for what it is, but even though it has such a large and productive community for FMs, the Thief series is noted for the strength of the game that comes out of the box. The great writing, the unique setting, the character and the atmosphere.
Bethseda has not shown themselves to be even competent anything in that list.

I'd rather not turn this into a pissing contest though, so I'll leave it at that.

Neuling on 26/8/2007 at 23:02

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True, they are very different. The fact remains that Bethesda is being renowned for making that kind of games.
For this very reason I too would not be overly excited if Bethesda did another Thief sequel. They did not convince me neither with Morrowind nor with Oblivion. Maybe it is my lack of imagination but I fail to see how these two could ever be considered a solid ground for making a Thief game.

I am certainly not a hardcore gamer so I probably missed an awful lot of games. But I have yet to see a game with a "full-fledged open world" AND a truly convincing story to tell.
A gut feeling tells me this will not work out. It contradicts everything I know about how to tell a convincing story. A full-fledged open world where you are free to roam wherever you like just seems not to go together well with the necessity of a dense line of events that describe a thrilling and engaging story.

Playing Thief was not only a very refreshing experience because you did not have to shoot everything in sight to reach your goal. I really loved the feeling of being a crucial part of the unfolding events. There was a great narration going on, told by the events you were part of. Nearly every isolated mission felt like it was an important part of the story. (Loot hunting alone never was my cup of tea, I fear.)

So if Bethesda (or whoever) would decide to set Thief in an open world like Oblivion, I fear they would effectivly harm the possibility to tell a good story. I was gamemaster of enough role playing events to know: the most memorable evenings were those where the players still had the illusion of freedom but in fact my guidance was strong and kept them on the go.

In short: I love to have seperated missions with time and location jumps in between, that are hold together by some unavoidable, narrated events. They add immensely to the atmosphere. Please never do Thief in a "full-fledged open world". What would you do in such an open ended world anyway? Go on hunting ever-respawning loot forever? It would inevitably become as boring as Morrowind and Oblivion...

Jeshibu on 26/8/2007 at 23:45

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Yes, you would, and yes, it kind of does. See Thief 3 for reference.