hexarith on 13/4/2006 at 00:11
There seem to be a few unwritten rules about sound in stealth games:
* Crouching is silenter than walking
* Walking on metal makes more noise than walking on stone. Wood is somewhere between metal and stone. Walking on carpet is the silentest.
But is this true? This is the one point you know you've played to much stealth games: When you begin to walk and crouch over different surfaces, with a dB meter nearby. :cool: One thing is for sure: If I crouch I make much more noise, than if I walk slowly; my feet/shoes are twising on the ground, my weight gets shifted from one leg to the other apruptly. Also walking over the carpet in my living room makes some noise due to the wooden panels it lies on. OTOH in our basement there is a massive concrete floor and the pavement in front of the house is made of bricks; walking with trekking shoes on these makes almost no sound. And then there are those one inch thick metal plates used to cover excavation pits, walking on this makes less sound than walking on wood.
How something sounds depends mostly on the combination of the materials. A metal grate lying loosely in a frame can vibrate but if it is welded on it cant. Walking in high heels on stone makes noise, but walking with bare foot on it doesn't. However walking over a wooden deal always makes some noise.
I think game designer should rethink their sound paradigmas.
Neil_McCauley on 13/4/2006 at 00:47
Nevermind that any thief wouldn't be wearing hard-soled shoes!! It sounds like he's wearing dress shoes, ferchrissakes!
It seems to be a pretty unique concept in games, at least in my experience; sound on different materials setting off the AI.
grinningman on 13/4/2006 at 02:02
I guess it's a gameplay consideration. Of course it would be more realistic if sometimes the wooden floor was the loudest, sometimes the stone floor was the loudest, sometimes there is a squeaky floorboard, etc. But I suspect this kind of realism would not be fun for the player. As it stands, the player can easily recognise which surfaces are loud and quiet. If it was more realistic then the player would have to use trial and error on every new surface, which would quickly get tedious.
I agree about the crouching though - why should crouching make you quieter? Moving while crouched is awkward. I think that amount of noise you make when moving should be tied to your speed - the slower you move, the quieter you are. And since moving while crouching is more awkward, you should make more noise moving when crouched. This also makes sense from a gameplay perspective - crouching gives you an added advantage of being less visible, but it also gives you the disadvantage of being slightly louder for any given speed (along with a lower maximum speed than upright movement, of course). This way both crouch moving and normal moving are both useful. The way it works in TDS, crouch-running is far superior to normal walking or creeping, because it doesnt make any sound, *and* makes you less visible.
I agree that Garrett's choice of shoe soles is shocking, especially in TMA. No thief should wear shoes that sound like that walking on tiled floors :)
Soul Shaker on 13/4/2006 at 07:46
Crouching wouldn't be arkward for someone who does it often. Like, I can't walk around quietly very easily, but Garrett in this instance could, because of training. Same thing with crouching. Hell, I hate crouching, I think that's about the same feeling as some really high heels with no front support. (and no, I'm a guy, and I have never worn high heels in my life, so keep it shut...)
But, the dress shoes make moss arrows useful. No dress shoes=totally silent movement across any surface while crouching or creeping. That's why moss arrows are useless for there intended purpose in TDS, so extra features such as choking were added to give them use.
Though, I would agree to a change in crouching/creeping in TDS, although, I don't think I'll be back there for a while. Not until I forget at least half the story...damn memory! Can't I have a memory lapse? PWEASSSEEEE?!?!
Neil_McCauley on 14/4/2006 at 17:26
I think the shoes thing is just to show off the sound. Sure, a bit unrealistic when you think about it, but adds a new dimension to the gameplay, and of course the necessity of moss arrows. What else would alert the guards to your presence? Nowadays, of course, it could be done with more subtlety.
Moss arrows are also good for jumping, and for falling, right? Don't they cushion falls a bit?
ZylonBane on 14/4/2006 at 17:46
Quote Posted by hexarith
I think game designer should rethink their sound paradigmas.
I think he shouldnabwn't.
R Soul on 14/4/2006 at 18:20
If they made it too realistic they'd get in trouble with U.S. politicians for making a game that provides realistic practice for thieves.
Quote Posted by grinningman
But I suspect this kind of realism would not be fun for the player. As it stands, the player can easily recognise which surfaces are loud and quiet. If it was more realistic then the player would have to use trial and error on every new surface, which would quickly get tedious.
I agree with that.
Also, soft shoes may be quiet, but imagine how sore Garrett's feet would be after running around on cobbled streets all night.
dlw6 on 15/4/2006 at 00:21
If you have a time machine, you could try to get the game designers to rethink their sound paradigms.
I have wood, carpet, and tile floors in my house. With hard leather soles, the relative noise between the three is about right, though the volume level is much lower.
Perhaps we need an FM where Garret steals the Mechanist rubber-carpet technology so he can get a few pairs of quiet shoes made.
Don
Neil_McCauley on 15/4/2006 at 01:25
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
I think he shouldnabwn't.
:laff: I'm dyin' over here...
Quote:
Also, soft shoes may be quiet, but imagine how sore Garrett's feet would be after running around on cobbled streets all night.
Why? Garrett needs to buy a pair ECCO shoes. The most comfortable shoes I've ever worn in my life and I could sneak into anything.
