Garrett2014 on 12/1/2015 at 14:35
Ok guys Ive been reading the Building Principles Tour doc where it shows good and bad ways of building. So having brushes slop over into other brushes is bad but for stairs its good ? I kinda understand that it works out mathematically better so your only using 2 decimal points etc so you live with a little slop but i was just wondering if after you had placed your 2 large wedges to create the stair incline and the ceiling incline why you dont use a series of smaller wedges inverted to create your actual steps ? Then there would be no slop and you can still size it like you would square bruses which are either solid or air depending what methed you were using to carve or add to the wedge to create your steps !
Random_Taffer on 12/1/2015 at 15:10
For stairs, I use a solid wedge only for the ceiling part. I make each step a solid cube brush. Most generally 1 unit high by 1.5 width. This is just for normal stair cases. Spiral stairs are much different.
Garrett2014 on 12/1/2015 at 15:18
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
For stairs, I use a solid wedge only for the ceiling part. I make each step a solid cube brush. Most generally 1 unit high by 1.5 width. This is just for normal stair cases. Spiral stairs are much different.
If you use cubes then doesnt this leave a void underneath your staircase ? Ive read this can cause problems both for the AI Pathfinding but also for lighting and other issues. Im new though and only know what ive read :/
Random_Taffer on 12/1/2015 at 15:45
Quote Posted by Garrett2014
If you use cubes then doesnt this leave a void underneath your staircase ? Ive read this can cause problems both for the AI Pathfinding but also for lighting and other issues. Im new though and only know what ive read :/
No. The cubes I use increase in height as the stairs get higher.
So, each cube's bottom surface is snapped to the floor and increases in height by 1 unit until it reaches the top. Lets say the stairwell is 6 units thick. The bottom step would be 6 x 1.5 x 1. The second step would be 6 x 1.5 x 2, third 6 x 1.5 x 3, and so on and so forth. If you need to have a hollow space behind the stairs, you can use a large air wedge afterwards. If you want these to be wooden slatted basement steps or something, you can change the height of each to 0.5 units, but keep the top surface snapped to the same point on the grid. Then for the sides, use four wedges- one solid and one air for each side.
I've been doing it this way for a long time and have never run into pathfinding issues related to the stairs.
Garrett2014 on 12/1/2015 at 16:05
Quote Posted by Random_Taffer
No. The cubes I use increase in height as the stairs get higher.
So, each cube's bottom surface is snapped to the floor and increases in height by 1 unit until it reaches the top. Lets say the stairwell is 6 units thick. The bottom step would be 6 x 1.5 x 1. The second step would be 6 x 1.5 x 2, third 6 x 1.5 x 3, and so on and so forth. If you need to have a hollow space behind the stairs, you can use a large air wedge afterwards. If you want these to be wooden slatted basement steps or something, you can change the height of each to 0.5 units, but keep the top surface snapped to the same point on the grid. Then for the sides, use four wedges- one solid and one air for each side.
I've been doing it this way for a long time and have never run into pathfinding issues related to the stairs.
I guess with todays CPU power and GPU's the added geometry this creates in a level is no longer an issue ?
ZylonBane on 12/1/2015 at 16:16
Quote Posted by Garrett2014
I guess with todays CPU powr and GPU's the added geometry thi creates in a level is no longer an issue ?
What is "thi"? He described at least three separate approaches. Be more specific.
Random_Taffer on 12/1/2015 at 16:27
Quote Posted by Garrett2014
I guess with todays CPU powr and GPU's the added geometry thi creates in a level is no longer an issue ?
I guess it depends on how big the stairwell is and how many steps are in sight at one time? Are you building a stairway to heaven?
I've used the methods I've described before Newdark came out and never ran into any issues at all.
Garrett2014 on 12/1/2015 at 18:28
Quote Posted by ZylonBane
What is "thi"? He described at least three separate approaches. Be more specific.
Hi ZB, Yea there are 3 methods described in the docuement which are described as correct. All use a wedge to fill the stairwell first then either subtract or add the steps using rectoid brushes, THe only diference in the methods I can discerne is the size of the rectoids and the spacing or pitch of the steps so that in one case they are corner to corner but in others they intersect with the wedge. As soon as your carving or adding then its my understanding this is adding geometry, extra vertices and whatnot. Well my idea was to use small inverted wedges as the steps. Im curious if this would prove to be a more efficient building technique as your only using existing brushes and not creating more geometry for the engine to deal with by subtracting an air brush from a solid brush. Im simply trying to figure out what the game engine likes and what it dosent as im reading that brushes with 3 decimal places are hard for it too compute and while my level is likely to be small I wish to develope good practice techniques now rather than later after picking up bad habits etc.
Random_Taffer on 12/1/2015 at 19:57
Folks use various methods when creating stairs. It depends on the style and location, of course. As I said, the methods I provided work for me, but I'm sure other folks might do it differently. I've never noticed any issues with my levels that have been stair-related. As long as Garrett can navigate smoothly up and down in forward or reverse, then I'm good.
There are probably some stair technique threads hanging around here somewhere if you search.
nicked on 12/1/2015 at 19:57
I think you'd find that the wedges might not line up correctly and you'd have stairs that you get stuck on for no discernible reason. You'd still be adding as many brushes, and you'd probably be adding more cells than would be necessary.
To be honest, with New Dark, you probably won't ever need to worry about the poly count unless you're doing something insanely complex with brushes, and if that's the case, you're probably better off with an object. If you've got grid-snap on, you shouldn't need to worry about decimal places. Just don't go below 12 or 11 for very fine detail. If you've not got grid-snap on, you will have very large problems very quickly.
Two good ways to build stairs are to make a solid wedge, then carve steps into it with cubes, or to use cubes of steadily increasing height as R_T suggested.
For any tricky architecture like stairs, the best bet is to find what you're looking for in an existing mission, and see how they did it.
