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fett on 13/3/2013 at 03:14

Quote Posted by Stitch

I don't think you're being honest with this statement. People that truly "hope it ends up being good" don't precede that statement with screeds detailing why EVERYTHING IS DOOMED.

Except sometimes they do because everything's not that black and white. I'm a Star Wars fan. Why would I root for this to fail? Especially with the original characters? There's no way I can help but hope it goes well. But that hope is strongly tempered with reality, history, and past experience. In fact, I think it's wise to approach just about everything in life that way, much less when it comes to art.

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What do either of those things have to do with your relationship with possible new Star Wars movies now? Whatever came before, you clearly have arrived at a place where new Star Wars movies seem like a dead-end endeavor from which nothing cool or exciting can survive. Except you "hope it ends up being good," of course.

They have everything to do with it. I own every single novel in the EU. I saw the Clone Wars CGI movie opening night. The point is that I have NEVER been and am still not opposed to new entries to the SW canon, nor to most things, which is why I mentioned those other franchises. As bad as the prequels were, I still bought the books surrounding them and saw them multiple times. This is all evidence that I am not "walled up in your fortress of original trilogy lunchboxes and prequel trilogy disappointment." I have patronized it all, and enjoyed 90% of it, including much of the redeeming aspects of the prequels. Possibly you make that assumption because that is the profile of the typical SW fan, but I'm not that guy. Neither have I said new movies are a dead end. Read my posts on the previous page - I said that origin stories would be cool. I've gone to great length to explain that IMO there are great ideas for both movies and TV shows to be had, but this isn't one. That's hardly arriving at a place where I believe nothing cool or exciting can survive. Overstating much?

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Of course not. Why would you think that? I certainly didn't say it.

You implied it strongly by saying I am "walled up in my fortress...of prequel trilogy disappointment," - as if I'm somehow throwing a tantrum because the prequels were bad, and even if I was, I am in large company. The fact that they were bad played a large part in me not taking the franchise so seriously (that, and turning 40). And they haven't figured much into my doubts about the new films. They *are* a relevant example of why some things are better left alone, and how it's going to be tough to live up to the extremely high expectations people have of anything related to the original trilogy. Godfather 3 is a shitpile too, and saying so doesn't make me a purist, nor does it mean further Godfather movies are dead end endeavors.

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This question is so ridiculously specific as to be unanswerable. Other franchises have been rebooted successfully years removed from their previous glory days--by all accounts the new Bond is pretty solid, for example--so why is Star Wars an exception?

Dude, if you want to see Sean Connery and Roger Moore play James Bond *right now* then you're simply not going to get why this is a bad idea. Are you honestly going to tell me Indy 4 was "cool and exciting?" Additionally - this is NOT a "reboot," (which would be a much better idea) it's an attempted continuation of character arcs 40 years later with the exact same actors. Bond isn't a fair comparison and you know it.

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Adding new entries to a beloved film series years after the fact is always a tricky proposition, and there certainly are a lot of landmines to be avoided. Star Wars is lucky, however, in that a new trilogy would actually fit into the current framework rather easily, seeing as how the first two trilogies already tell the stories of two different generations. Why not tell the story of the third?

If that's the case, then great, I have high hopes for that. All indications so far is that it's not about the third generation, but rather a continued story of the 2nd. Big difference. But even if that's the case, I honestly do hope it's awesome. Because I love those characters and that universe. I can't think of any other franchise that returned in a big way so far removed from the originals and was actually not painful to watch. Think Lethal Weapon 4, Elm Street 6, etc. Why do you think everyone lost interest? The only franchise that has done this successfully is Batman, and even that wouldn't have worked if they'd decided to use Michael Keaton, so that's again more akin to Bond than the new SW. I don't think the combined powers of Abrams and Lucas can pull it off, given their history. That has nothing to do with SW fanboi idiocy - it has to do with their track record.

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There are a lot of reasons new Star Wars might not be good, but none why it can't.

Which is what I've been saying. There's an entire, richly developed story world to draw from. It might be good. I hope it's good. I'm just articulating "a lot of reasons" why it probably won't be.

henke on 13/3/2013 at 10:51

No fett, that's not what you've been saying.

Quote Posted by fett

I say again for the record - there is no good end to this. No one wants new actors that don't heark to the original story - we've been down that road and it sucked. No one wants anyone else to play the original characters. No one wants to see the original cast playing the same characters in their 60's. There are no other options and anyone being optimistic is doing so simply to play devil's advocate against the purists. Goody for you - you're the lone voice of reason amidst the howling mob, but you're still an idiot. This shit just needs to stop. The story is over, the books have expanded on the rest of the universe, there is nothing left to do. Except make money. And don't give me this crap about how all movies want to make money. All movies that are GOOD try to make art FIRST, and if you're lucky the money follows. JJ Abrams doesn't make art. He makes money. He also doesn't write stories. He throws a plastic bag of shit against a wall and keeps whatever sticks, with no rhyme or reason. Star Wars is over. Just like the Beatles and Firefly. LET IT GO.

If you've been "hoping for the best" all along, you've done a good job at hiding it.

Briareos H on 13/3/2013 at 12:01

I don't see any hypocrisy in being convinced something is going to suck while hoping it won't.
I really begin to understand while negativity upon upcoming entertainment / art is so badly received by the general public (on forums, review sites, RPS, etc.) Our brains really are wired differently.

Thirith on 13/3/2013 at 12:34

Quote Posted by Briareos H

There's a difference between being critical and being negative. See the Thief boards for lots of examples of the latter, for instance; it's about taking every piece of information and giving it the most negative spin possible. That may not be hypocritical, but it's about as conducive to actual discussion as posting a video of yourself defecating onto your Star Wars prequel DVDs.

jtr7 on 13/3/2013 at 13:27

"most negative spin possible"

The number of people actually doing that is too small to be bothered with, and those closer to the center of the Bell Curve are getting lumped in with them when they could make it much much more negative if that's what they wanted or even had in mind. People who are offering a range of opinions positive and negative are being shoved into a black & white categorization, and then their annoyance with the people imposing/projecting on them is getting treated as negativity about the product and as proof of how negative they are.

Sorry for the very long post.

fett on 13/3/2013 at 13:35

Quote Posted by henke

No fett, that's not what you've been saying.

If you've been "hoping for the best" all along, you've done a good job at hiding it.

The context of that post has to do with exactly what I'm still saying isn't going to turn out well - recasting, or worse, revisiting the original characters using the same actors. And I maintain that opinion. However, since there have been rumblings of origin stories, and even the merest hint that the original actors have minor parts/cameos, I've softened on that considerably.

@Thirth - the *only* two pieces of information I've taken a negative view of are really one and the same - revisiting the original character's story arcs with the same actors. That's not "every" bit of information as I'm happy to see them at least involved somehow, even if it's just as consultation. I'm not thrilled about Abrams, but I'm not going on and on about it. I think using Kasdan again is a good idea and I've said so. I think keeping Lucas' involvement to a minimum is a good idea too. There are a lot of positives here, but my original protests having to do with the specific two things I mentioned loom large over all the other potential good stuff.

You guys are confusing the vehemence of my objections over a few very specific things with a blanket Bah Humbug of the entire thing, which isn't fair. Follow my posts - as new information has come in, I have been increasingly hopeful, but my misgivings haven't changed. I'm amazed, given the way things like this typically turn out, that more people aren't rolling their eyes. You can't on one hand bemoan the lack of original material coming out of Hollywood, then stand and applaud when they resurrect a 40 year dead story.

PigLick on 13/3/2013 at 13:39

fucking enough godammit, Star Wars is at best a cliched fantasy story with some cool characters, its not that important in the scale of things to get so bloody intense about.
I prefer you yelling about Kings X and how they are so amazing.

jtr7 on 13/3/2013 at 13:41

Jeremy Bulloch has been asking for a reprisal for some years, now, so if they do take cue from the EU, and Boba Fett does come back, it would make sense to have Jeremy and his young Eastwood-derived quiet stillness. I don't know if they would do that for a standalone movie, which is also rumored for Boba Fett, but with the armor, they could have several actors, like they have had with Vader.

The upset in the threads and ThiefGen are over the forum members being irritating, not the hopes/fears over a commercial product.

fett on 13/3/2013 at 14:16

Quote Posted by PigLick

Seriously? You're going to instruct me about how to work my scale of things to get intense about? Let's not compare cards on that one, friend. What makes you think I'm stomping around my house, all worked up over the SW movies? Believe me, I've got bigger fish to fry. The only time I even think on it is when I come to this thread or I catch a news blurb. I guess I missed the part where discussing opinions in a forum is taken as ranting and freaking out. Might as well not discuss anything, or be passionate about anything. Remind me why TTLG is dying again?

Not trying to be an ass, but I looked at the thread title and assumed we were posting here specifically to discuss Star Wars.

PigLick on 13/3/2013 at 14:33

dude I think you are pretty cool, but you are definitely ranting and freakin out right now. You know nothing about me, I dont post thread/blogs about my life. But heres a little factoid - I suck