heywood on 12/2/2013 at 10:39
Quote Posted by Briareos H
So you boycotted Empire Strikes Back?
What a stupid comment. If you write the story, produce the film, run the production company, and bankroll the project, I think you deserve a credit in "making" the film. Irvin Kershner directed, but based on his body of work I'm inclined to give him minimal credit for the greatness of
Empire. Lawrence Kasdan certainly deserves a lot of credit, as does Leigh Brackett (who might be responsible for those classic Yoda lines?) But there is no doubt that if I had to pick one person who is most responsible for the end product, it's George Lucas who wrote the story and had an oversight role in every part of the production.
EDIT:
Quote Posted by Thirith
For me, it's more the other way around - if Lucas is too involved (I don't want him anywhere near the director's chair or writing the damn script) I'm automatically much less likely to want to see the films. He may be good as an ideas man (and that's a very big 'may'), but he can't write or direct to save his life.
You say that now, but do you honestly think the next film is going to come out better than Episode 3? (which was actually not such a bad film at all)
SubJeff on 12/2/2013 at 11:27
Episode 3 was a terrible film, just ghastly.
Its superior to the other 2 turds and it that somehow makes people think it was okay.
It wasn't.
Thirith on 12/2/2013 at 11:31
@heywood: I don't rate Revenge of the Sith particularly highly - there are so many things wrong with the acting and writing. Perhaps fewer than with Eps 1 and 2, but that's not a very high benchmark to surpass.
To be honest, I can imagine J.J. Abrams to do a good job with the franchise. I greatly enjoyed his Star Trek and thought it got the thing right that for me is most important about Trek, namely the characters and relationships. I'm much more confident in his ability to deliver a well-crafted, well-paced film than in Lucas', especially if the script isn't hampered by Lucas' leaden pen.
I'm not all that emotionally invested in the new films, but I'm definitely cautiously optimistic that they can manage films that don't fail on the level of craft, which is already more than you could say for the prequels IMO.
Edit: Count on Subjective Effect and his pith to put it in a nutshell. :-D
zacharias on 12/2/2013 at 15:51
Irvin Kershner is an enigma. He directed the best Star Wars movie, yet also gave us the cinematic train wreck that is Robocop 2.
Also, the prequels fail on the level of craft now? What? As movies Eps 1 and 2 are dire, but I have all the 'Art of..' books for the prequels and they're all brilliant. Don't know how anyone can gripe about the craft level of these films (acting and writing aside.)
I gotta say Ep 3 isn't terrible at all. The core story of the complete disintegration of Anakin on a personal and moral level, is very successfully done, and miles more involving than anything in Eps 1 and 2. It was too little too late but if you compare it with the original trilogy (which many people have the rose tinted specs on) it's not much worse overall. Sure it has oodles of flaws but..parts of IV and VI are damn clunky as well.
Thirith on 12/2/2013 at 16:53
Quote Posted by zacharias
Also, the prequels fail on the level of craft now? What? As movies Eps 1 and 2 are dire, but I have all the 'Art of..' books for the prequels and they're all brilliant. Don't know how anyone can gripe about the craft level of these films (acting and writing aside.)
I like much of the visual design, but the way it's used in the films is bad IMO. It's about throwing as much as possible at the screen at all times. There's no ebb and flow, there's little rhythm to the images. It's all visual noise, which means that even the good design work ends up less than effective. I remember the space battle at the beginning of Ep. 3 to be particularly bad in that respect.
zacharias on 12/2/2013 at 17:42
That's fair enough it's questionable in terms of throwing too much at the screen, but again, that's on George really to set the direction.
Also, someone mentioned McQuarrie. Now, I love the guy. But it's worth remembering the godawful singing characters from Jabba's palace bit of ROTJ was an exact replica of his concept's. So that's George going back and doing it as faithfully as could be done to the original concept art. There's lots of shades of grey when you really nitpick this stuff.
fett on 12/2/2013 at 17:58
Quote Posted by Scots Taffer
Love ya fett, but that's some bad weed you're smoking to reckon that's a cinematic concept for the use of the SW universe...
I should have clarified that this would be a good concept for a TV series - not a movie series. I have no idea what the fuck is left to do cinematically with SW. But there's lots of cool stuff to explore in-depth in the TV medium.
Kolya on 12/2/2013 at 21:58
I want my Kyle Katarn movie NAO!!
(Stay sharp, Jen!)
SubJeff on 12/2/2013 at 22:37
Quote Posted by fett
I should have clarified that this would be a good concept for a TV series - not a movie series. I have no idea what the fuck is left to do cinematically with SW. But there's lots of cool stuff to explore in-depth in the TV medium.
But why? Why use Star Wars? There is nothing interesting or novel about the universe that would make political shenanigans any more interesting than doing it any other universe, or a new one?
fett on 13/2/2013 at 01:42
Read the X-Wings series by Michael Stackpole and Aaron Alliston. It's fantastic against all odds with this type of material. It basically re-focuses the story of the Republic vs. Empire to the little people who have to actually make a new government work on the ground. There are literally some Wire-esqe things happening where the details become more fascinating than the big picture. The history of the universe, the variety of unknowns about the myriad alien races, the re-organizing of cultural perception toward to the rebellion as the new government, etc. makes for rich soil...There's more going on in those books than the entire Trek series' put together.
