SubJeff on 10/12/2012 at 01:48
Gabe has been talking to a bunch of sites about Valve's plans for a living room PC that will be in competition with the consoles.
(
http://kotaku.com/5966860/gabe-newell-living-room-pcs-will-compete-with-next+gen-consoles)
I think this may well be the beginning of the end for the consoles for a few different reasons.
1. Cost. Because there will be no set configuration (read the link) there will be lowest common denominator set-ups and they will be cheaper than consoles. And as the years go by they'll get cheaper. Yes, console prices drop but not that fast.
2. Multi-functionality. This living room PC could do a lot more than game. Video, music, casting to a screen in the office and being the only PC in the house. This ties in with cost too.
3. Games. There are so many cross platform AAA games now and as always the PC will have the better graphics and tweakability. Plus I'm sure it would be economically nice for devs to not have to learn and develop for Sony OS LXXXIV: Kanjō 12 wa kogane no besutodesu.
I've no doubt Sony and MS will try to hold on, probably with <strike>bribes</strike> licences, but I foresee a future of a more tech savvy populace where replacing a heatsink or graphics card is no longer seen as some arcane art, where people make choices because its sensible and not oohhhh shiny. Or course there will always be made to spec boxes but that's just part of consumer choice.
I think the next gen of consoles will be the last.
CCCToad on 10/12/2012 at 02:44
All valid points, but I don't think they matter ultimately.
The reason why is marketing. For example, the Ipad mini loses in all the areas you list. It's very expensive for what you get (point #1), offers no new functionality over either existing iOS products or competing tablets (point #2), and has no software that runs better on it as opposed to an Ipad or iphone (point #3).
Yet, it sold like hotcakes whereas competing tablets that DO offer new features and more functionality at less cost are failing miserably.
The reason why Gabe's living room PC will fail isn't because of any functionality issue. It's because Valve's marketing machine can't touch what Microsoft and Sony can do.
Jason Moyer on 10/12/2012 at 03:38
Actually, Apple has been losing market share for tablets, especially to Google. All the marketing in the world doesn't matter when your competitor puts out a better product. Er, that is, obviously it still matters, but you know what I mean. If Apple's products hadn't stagnated for the past several years, they'd be dominating the market for smart devices instead of barely holding 50% market share.
CCCToad on 10/12/2012 at 04:05
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
Actually, Apple has been losing market share for tablets, especially to Google. All the marketing in the world doesn't matter when your competitor puts out a better product. Er, that is, obviously it still matters, but you know what I mean. If Apple's products hadn't stagnated for the past several years, they'd be dominating the market for smart devices instead of barely holding 50% market share.
Point still stands, because they were able to dominate the market with all my points valid at the time, and still have a majority share as the Apple products continue to be less cool.
And, again, Apple's loss in market share correlates with them slacking off with their ads and publicity campaigns. They're starting to lose the image that makes having an Ipad the "in" thing with the hipsters and preppies, and market share falls as a result.
Unless gabe can market the new system as well as Microsoft can market the xbox his device will fail.
Yakoob on 10/12/2012 at 05:40
While I do think this will go far (if Valve is any indication), I think it will succeed for reasons very different from what you pointed:
Quote Posted by Subjective Effect
1. Cost. Because there will be no set configuration (read the link) there will be lowest common denominator set-ups and they will be cheaper than consoles. And as the years go by they'll get cheaper. Yes, console prices drop but not that fast.
Err where did you get that? Gabe said ""Well certainly our hardware will be a very controlled environment," he said. "If you want more flexibility, you can always buy a more general purpose PC." I thought the other packages from other manufacturers refered to competition, not partners.
In any case, having multiple configurations would be bad, segmenting the marketing and taking away from the "just-works" convenience of console-like PC.
Quote:
2. Multi-functionality. This living room PC could do a lot more than game. Video, music, casting to a screen in the office and being the only PC in the house. This ties in with cost too.
Eh, consoles already do half of that, and the trend shows the next gen of PS4 and XBox720 will probably have even more PC-like apps/features, that's even easier to streamline/integrate.
Quote:
3. Games. There are so many cross platform AAA games now and as always the PC will have the better graphics and tweakability. Plus I'm sure it would be economically nice for devs to not have to learn and develop for Sony OS LXXXIV: Kanjō 12 wa kogane no besutodesu.
Yes, but not with fixed hardware, you will get only "better graphics" for like a year or two after launch.
Quote:
... I foresee a future of a more tech savvy populace where replacing a heatsink or graphics card is no longer seen as some arcane art, where people make choices because its sensible and not oohhhh shiny.
You overestimate the technical aptitude and patience of your typical gamer/fratboy/hipster/console user. Half the reason Apple iPod/iPhone/iPads succeeded is exactly because there was no 'dicking around' required and it just worked. Honestly, try talking to any of your non-geeky friends and explain the concept of replacing a CPU in detail, see how many would stare at you blankly or just go with "I'd rather just pay someone to do it / buy a newer model."
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That being said, I am quite excited to hear this, only because it's Valve. At this point, honestly, it really sounds like just another console, but with maybe open-ended OS like linux in the background. Steam sounds like it will function as the dashboard/store/manager much like XBox Live or the PS one.
I wonder if they are going to give up full OS access (i.e. boot to linux) or limit it via the SteamDashboard...
twisty on 10/12/2012 at 05:50
It's disappointing that there's no wireless connectivity option built in. While I can appreciate the technical limitations at some level, I sure couldn't be bothered moving my whole rig to the lounge room.
I would like to see this thing take off though.
van HellSing on 10/12/2012 at 06:01
This is the way the PC ends, not with a bang, but with a hiss.
demagogue on 10/12/2012 at 06:44
My friend has already had a PC-television setup since like 2009 where we'd switch between tv mode & PC mode and play games on the big screen all the time, particularly oldschool emulated console games with console controllers, but also contemporary PC games. I got it all setup for him for gaming, and played IL2 on in incessantly. Occasionally there's a graphics glitch, some of which are fixable and some less so. But for the most part it works great. So I wonder what's really new about this Valve set up.
Edit: I guess the difference comes down to how "turnkey" it is, to use his term. This new system will be very plug-in-&-play easy to set up. But seriously it wasn't all that hard to set up a normal PC to that television & get games working, and it's disappointing if people think that much is "too hard". But I'd rather keep its flexibility than be handheld too much with a system that won't let me do on a big screen everything a regular PC can do normally.
SubJeff on 10/12/2012 at 14:59
Quote Posted by Yakoob
Err where did you get that? Gabe said ""Well certainly our hardware will be a very controlled environment," he said. "If you want more flexibility, you can always buy a more general purpose PC." I thought the other packages from other manufacturers refered to competition, not partners.
In any case, having multiple configurations would be bad, segmenting the marketing and taking away from the "just-works" convenience of console-like PC.
So they'll set a standard that will of course go out of date - this will be the lowest common denominator. Two things - 1. Setting a Valve Machine v2.0 standard will be easy and easier to build than a console if it just uses bespoke hardware. 2. If they set a bar people will be able to build above the bar.
Quote:
Eh, consoles already do half of that, and the trend shows the next gen of PS4 and XBox720 will probably have even more PC-like apps/features, that's even easier to streamline/integrate.
If only it were as easy as that. I still have to get my PS3 to talk to my PC. Is there a dedicated Sony app for this? No, I have to use PS3 Media Server. Although you are correct - I imagine that the next gen will have a lot of these features built in. It'll still be bespoke stuff though and I always foresee issues with that.
Quote:
Yes, but not with fixed hardware, you will get only "better graphics" for like a year or two after launch.
On v2 yes. But because you'll be able to run Steam OS or whatever on other machines it won't be as cut and dried as with consoles.
Quote:
You overestimate the technical aptitude and patience of your typical gamer/fratboy/hipster/console user. Half the reason Apple iPod/iPhone/iPads succeeded is exactly because there was no 'dicking around' required and it just worked. Honestly, try talking to any of your non-geeky friends and explain the concept of replacing a CPU in detail, see how many would stare at you blankly or just go with "I'd rather just pay someone to do it / buy a newer model."
For the moment this is true. But in developed nations more and more people will be tech savvy because we live in a tech world. I'm not saying its going to happen right away but in time we're going to get all Deus Ex aren't we? Think of it this way - who do you know who doesn't have a smartphone? Take yourself back a few years and ask yourself the same.
