demagogue on 24/4/2015 at 08:38
Steam's (
http://steamcommunity.com/games/SteamWorkshop/announcements/detail/208632365237576574) latest bullshittery is already getting Internet's panties in a twist & causing ruckus all over the place, but that shouldn't stop us having our own hatefest.
I think it's a pretty obvious argument that charging for mods is going to smother the scene with an influx of opportunistic types glutting the place & trying to hoodwink money out of people at every turn until you can't trust a single mod link anymore.
Or free mods suddenly become synonymous with "first time experimentation" that you wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole, and people aren't going to make quality stuff just because they can, which IMO led to some of the best things out there that weren't trying to get something from people, but pure expressions of themselves or wanting to give to a community for its own sake.
Being non-commercial was one thing that made modding something players could take ownership over & the kind of thing that genuine communities can build around. Monetizing it cheapens & kills all that. Cf. the history of punk rock maybe.
Anyway, here's the announcement:
Quote:
Introducing New Ways to Support Workshop Creators
április 23. - Alden
The Steam Workshop has always been a great place for discovering community-made mods, maps, and items for a variety of games. Starting now with The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, the Workshop is also a great place for community content creators to earn money by selling their greatest works.
We think this is a great opportunity to help support the incredible creative work being done by mod makers in the Steam Workshop and to encourage more top-quality work. This new feature allows mod authors to choose whether to list their items for a fixed price, for pay-what-you-want, or to make their item available for free. As a customer and fan of Skyrim, you're able to explore both paid and free mods, quests, and items.
The whole feature is best explained in the full press announcement and on the detailed announcement page and FAQ here: (
http://www.steamcomm...boutpaidcontent)
Along with these new options available to mod-creators, we've added a few features to support the experience and make everything as easy as possible:
Free, Paid, or Pay What You Want
With over 24,000 free mods available for Skyrim in the Steam Workshop, there will always be lots to do and explore for free. Now you can also find mods with a specified price, or mods where you can choose how much you wish to support the creators. The price is up to the mod creators.
Try any mod, Risk Free
When shopping for anything, it's still important to spend a little time learning about any product you are about to purchase. But, if after purchase you find that a mod is broken or doesn't work as promised, you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase. View the full refund policy here.
Play Skyrim For Free This Weekend
If you're new to Skyrim and haven't yet tried it out, now is your chance. Available now through April 26th, Skyrim is free to play. Just visit the Skyrim store page and click the 'play' button to download and start playing. If you decide you want to keep the game, it's also on sale for 75% off regular price!
Explore New Content
To prepare for this announcement, we've asked a few community mod makers to prepare some content for release. Browse Paid Skyrim Mods
Calling Creators!
Whether you're just getting started or are already a professional artist or developer, now you can make money from your creations in the Steam Workshop.
Starting with The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, you can make new cosmetic items, custom skins, fancy houses, epic quests, entire new cities, or just a new hat for Lydia. Once you've made your creation, you can easily set a price and earn a portion of each sale made through the Steam Workshop.
Plus, many more of your favorite Workshop games will support paid content in the coming weeks. Check out the full announcement and FAQ for more details.
Jason Moyer on 24/4/2015 at 08:50
People being able to get paid for putting hundreds of hours into something they created? What a terrible world we live in.
demagogue on 24/4/2015 at 09:00
People that want to put 100s of hours into something to get paid should start a formal studio, incorporate it, and go in the direction of getting staff, a HR person and a payroll, and making new IP that they own & sell as their own. And people that do do all that shouldn't be playing with mods anymore IMO.
Individuals or informal teams of random fans getting together to do something in their free time by using the workproduct of others and repackaging it as their own ... add money and the situation is toxic. Informality and money don't mix.
Edit: I just don't think it's a good idea for companies to start having boardmeetings where staff are looking over Skyrim horse reskins or their own glorified DLC expansions and how they can wiggle into that space.
I think it's the space that mods are in that's part of it too. Mods are part of their parent games, so there's often a closed space there. Commercializing that space might spoil the whole space. This is different than an indie scene, where they aren't clogging up a mod space but making original games with their own space. That's where game creators should go to get into the market I think.
Starker on 24/4/2015 at 09:42
Nobody forces people to ask money, though and, ultimately, this will be limited by what people are willing to pay for. If someone wants to put their content behind a paywall, they have to take into account the popularity hit they take due to this plus the backlash to the audacity of dirtying the pure and holy profession of tinkering with optional content.
On the other hand, this might lead to more professional people doing it full-time, more mods getting finished, and better quality mods. Someone might even be able to make a living out of this.
Edit: that said, though, I don't think this is the best way of going about it. Bethesda setting the revenue share to 25%/75% seems a bit money-grubby, and I think something like a Patreon-like donation model would have gone over way better with the general public.
henke on 24/4/2015 at 10:00
If the companies behind the base games are ok with this(and I guess they are since this exists), then this is great. It might incentivise some of the more ambitious mods to get finished if the devs have a chance to get paid for their effort. As for "why wouldn't aspiring devs just make their own games instead?". Because a lot of people are more comfortable working with mod tools they already know rather than learning Unity/UE4 and making AIs and systems from scratch.
icemann on 24/4/2015 at 12:04
I don't see the big deal about this. Being able to get money for putting in hundreds of hours into making a mod for some would create new options otherwise not possible (not having to do a day job to pay the bills even when a persons heart might be in games dev or the mod scene).
Much like those who make good money out of making youtube videos.
WingedKagouti on 24/4/2015 at 12:36
Quote Posted by Jason Moyer
People being able to get paid for putting hundreds of hours into something they created? What a terrible world we live in.
But are you ok with someone else taking parts of your mod, integrating that into their own mod and then taking money for result?
EvaUnit02 on 24/4/2015 at 13:05
Quote Posted by demagogue
I think it's a pretty obvious argument that charging for mods is going to smother the scene with an influx of opportunistic types glutting the place & trying to hoodwink money out of people at every turn until you can't trust a single mod link anymore.
The community will police this pretty well. Obvious scams will be badly reviewed into oblivion and the would-be scammer's plan will fail.
demagogue on 24/4/2015 at 13:12
Thinking about this, and this is undoubtedly the lawyer coming out of me, I think my main concern is it's a traditionally informal sector, but if money is getting involved it needs to be formalized and professionalized. That means people really need to be working under contract up front, where it's very clear what work you're doing for what money, and all rights have to be cleared up front. No taking assets from anywhere that isn't licensed and properly cleared. It means people working on mods for money should treat it like they were professional game devs. They *are* professional game devs now, and they need to act like it, just like the indie scene had to learn.
Aside from thinking a professionalization of the mod scene might have negative side effects, I think modding doesn't have a professional culture, and it'll be a pretty bitter and rocky road until it gets there. It means those ambitious mods we want to incentivize that have dozens of people working on them, everybody needs to be under contract, NDAs, supervisors looking over their shoulders & threatening formal action if their work isn't up to snuff, people potentially suing and getting sued, and the like. Existing mods that have already started need to be barred outright since they already have a lot of work into them not under contract. Since I don't think it's going to happen, people's work is going to be released without consent, money is going to be divvied up informally (i.e., unethically & with no legal basis), IP rights are going to be tramped all over the place, and a ton of people are going to get screwed because they have no legal protection.
Then, yeah, aside from that, the idea that people are negotiating and entering contracts and NDAs for a mod is fine in principle, it just sounds like it'd suck a little. Who signs a contract to make a mod? If an individual or team is ready to take the plunge and become professional game devs with all that entails, then more power to them. I'm not worried about them so much as the vast majority of the scene that's not professionalized at all.
Edit:
Quote Posted by EvaUnit02
The community will police this pretty well. Obvious scams will be badly reviewed into oblivion and the would-be scammer's plan will fail.
Yeah, I don't disagree in principle. But someone raised the analogy of Second Life. Sure, the shit will might get filtered for a while, but when there's a glut of it, the whole scene turns into a strip mall, and who wants to play Second Life anymore?
Starker on 24/4/2015 at 13:40
There will always be free mods. As for the need or the modding scene to get formalised and professionalised, that's exactly what Valve is doing -- they are providing clear terms under which modders who want it can monetise their work:
Quote:
When an item is sold via the Steam Workshop, revenue is shared between Valve (for transaction costs, fraud, bandwidth & hosting costs, building & supporting the Steam platform), the game developer (for creation of the game and the game's universe, the marketing to build an audience, the included assets, and any included modding or editing tools), and the item creator (including any specified contributors).
Quote:
You may submit a Contribution to which others besides you have contributed (a “Group Contribution”). You must identify all other contributors (“Contributors”) in the submission webform, provide their names and contact information, and specify revenue split percentages among the Contributors. Valve will contact the identified Contributors. All Contributors must agree to the application of these Supplemental Workshop Terms to the Group Contribution, confirm their personal information, and agree to the specified revenue split before any payments can be made to any Contributor.
Quote:
The percentage of Adjusted Gross Revenue that you are entitled to receive will be determined by the developer/publisher of the Application associated with the Workshop
Quote:
It's still important to spend a little time learning about any product you are about to purchase. But, if after purchase you find that a mod is broken or doesn't work as promised, you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase.
Sources:
(
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=72850)
(
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=72850)
So Valve takes the responsibility for providing infrastructure and policing fraud, the developer sets the revenue cut, the customer is protected from obvious scams by a 24 hour refund policy, and the modder decides whether to ask money for their work and how much.
