Eric18 on 24/4/2015 at 14:18
So if this backlash keeps growing, does this become a community vs modders? And how long till you start seeing mods being pirated? Apparently people are pulling mods off of Nexus mods and putting them up on Steam for sale. I cant see this not being a big mess for everyone. Except Valve of course, they'll just look the other way and ignore everything cause thats what they are good at.
Also Ive seen lots of mods for skyrim that use copyrighted material. There is a Arthas Lich King armor set, I think Blizzard wont be happy about things like that, and this is just going to get more messy the more games that are added to this system.
Dev_Anj on 24/4/2015 at 15:40
The charm of mods is that they don't have much money, definite schedules, or the need to appeal to as large an audience as possible(besides the audience for the games). When money is involved, it's going to cause a lot of problems if not done properly. Like, if artists are hired for some money while the programmers don't get any money, it can cause a rift. Same with if money is spent for employing some people and the sales for the mod don't recover it. Also certain types of mods getting more money would influence many modders to adapt those sorts of mods, which would affect the diversity of mods available. There's also a good chance that the freedom working on mods provides would go once salaries are involved for the people working on it.
It can help some people and get some good mods more recognition and tangible rewards, but it should be managed very carefully.
Ostriig on 24/4/2015 at 15:53
Quote Posted by demagogue
No taking assets from anywhere that isn't licensed and properly cleared.
Ding! From what I've skimmed online so far, this is actually the key problem with their current system. Apparently, "free mods" are also to be treated as "free resouces" by authors of paid-for mods. So, if you put out a mod for a buck, and then some other guy wants to build on your mod and put it out for five bucks, he needs to come to some agreement with you regarding monetisation. But if you've released your mod for free on Steam Workshop, anyone can come along and build it into their own thing and then charge for it.
If this is correct, it's a quite vicious approach by Valve to encourage more mods to come with a price tag so that they can take their own cut. Authors who create valuable content and would normally want to distribute it for free might be put off by the prospect of someone else making money off their hard work and give up, or turn around and figure they might as well get something too and charge for it. I've also read something about Valve removing mods whose authors have listed third-party avenues for donations. Maybe it's an emotional reaction on my part, but it kinda paints me a picture of "either charge for your mods so we can tax you, or we'll tax others using your stuff while you get squat."
As a general thing, as long as the possibility to protect one's work with a viral no-costs license were there, I'd be quite positive about the existence of paid-for mods in addition to the usual fare. Yeah, might rock the boat at first until the market settles down with what should be chargeable and to what tune, but it could also bring in a larger number of high-gloss products.
A bigger question is what's next. Right now, Valve can push their terms on their own storefront, but Nexus is still there. However, what if we end up in the near future with, say, Fallout 4 with either licensing or technical constraints leading to Workshop being the only channel for distribution? And Valve still don't allow mod authors to protect free content from subsequent monetisation by others?
Edit:Actually, following Starker's links...
Quote:
(
http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/workshoplegalagreement/?appid=72850) Supplemental Workshop Terms - Revenue Sharing
4. Group Contributions. [...] All Contributors must agree to the application of these Supplemental Workshop Terms to the Group Contribution, confirm their personal information, and agree to the specified revenue split before any payments can be made to any Contributor.
That would suggest that any author, including those of freely-distributed mods, could decline the terms and therefore prevent their work from being used in unwanted projects, wouldn't it? In which case most of my stuff above is incorrect, internet's lied to me again.
Thirith on 24/4/2015 at 17:35
There's a lot of potential for this to go very wrong, and it needs to be done smartly and with great sensitivity, but on principle I don't have any issues with it. I definitely have more issues with the kneejerk reaction from so many people online.
Pyrian on 24/4/2015 at 18:30
Quote Posted by Ostriig
That would suggest that any author, including those of freely-distributed mods, could decline the terms and therefore prevent their work from being used in unwanted projects, wouldn't it?
My concern is, who's going to check? Valve sure as heck won't. If you find someone using your work without permission, what is your recourse? And if such a recourse is created, if you get dinged by some crazy person for stealing work you didn't steal, what is your recourse then?
YouTube's system is kind of a mess, complained about by all, but I'm not sure of how to improve it without invoking an infinite pool of
responsible labor force that simply doesn't exist, nevermind have funding.
EDIT: Apparently the first take-down has already happened:
(
http://www.pcgamer.com/paid-for-skyrim-mod-removed-in-a-matter-of-hours/)
WingedKagouti on 24/4/2015 at 18:51
Quote Posted by Pyrian
My concern is, who's going to check? Valve sure as heck won't. If you find someone using your work without permission, what is your recourse? And if such a recourse is created, if you get dinged by some crazy person for stealing work you didn't steal, what is your recourse then?
Those are some of the reasons I heavily dislike this move by Valve.
If Valve doesn't do anything about stolen content, then they open themselves up for lawsuits. If they just react by taking down/deactivating a mod when a claim comes in, then it's easy for trolls to deny people access to popular mods. And if there are people looking at the individual claims, then it becomes very easy for trolls (or even those who steal stuff) to generate so large an amount of claims that it will take months to get a legitimate claim processed.
Pyrian on 24/4/2015 at 19:00
Anybody else looking forward to the inevitable Jimquisition episode on this? :cheeky: Bashing Valve for taking money for garbage is most of his YouTube channel these days. I can't see how this move is going to change his mind, lol.
Judith on 24/4/2015 at 20:10
He loves bashing shitty greenlight or early access games more than he admits. Not that he's wrong in condemning them, just "when you're smartest person in the room..." It's easier like that for him, for when he actually plays something decent and challenging, he isn't really good at it. He always repeats: "I'm not good at puzzles", "I don't have good sense of direction", etc. If so, why do you play games? ;)
Renault on 24/4/2015 at 20:28
I don't see any real information on how this will affect non-Skyrim projects. Maybe they're going to wait and see how it goes with that before broadening the program to include other games? Whatever the case, I'm surprised they didn't start their program off with including Source Engine mods too.
Hmmm, I guess I might end up paying for Yandros' 13 mission Thief campaign due out later this year...
